I was so focused on the diet part of this that now it seems the hard part was really the mixing and injection part. I just did my first injection and worried that I didn't do it right.



1. Mixing Questions

I got the HuCOG HCG and mixed it last night and started today. It is a 2000 iu vial (I have 6) and I mixed it with 1 cc of fluid and then put it into a different vial with 3cc of fluid (the bacto stuff). I know there are various opinions on mixing. I was going to do it the Colleen method, but found that part of the instructions on Colleen's website a bit confusing (probably for only newbies), so I just did the 4cc as I found another site with more specific step by step instructions.



I know (based on a calculator I found and reading Colleen's website) that I will need 3 2000iu vials for 43 days. So that means the one vial I mixed last night should last me appox. 13 days?? I'm doing 150iu for the dosage right now.



I just see that tiny amount of liquid in the vial (after mixing) and I freak out a little and think I'm not doing it right. Is that really going to last 13 days??? I am using insulin needles and did my first dose this morning to the "30" line.



Also, will there be a bit leftover after 13 days that I will just throw away (assuming 150iu was the perfect dose for me)?



Just feeling a bit overwhelmed at the moment.



Hoping someone can answer me and avoid the terms "iu", "cc" and "ml" as it is making me a bit crazy at this point - pretty confused.



2. What should I do with the needles?? Do I just put the cap on and throw them in the garbage? I worry our trashman is going to see and think I'm a junkie.



3. For the vials I have left (5 of the 6), I don't mix until I need them and DO NOT have to refrigerate those, right?? Until mixed? Just nervous I'm going to screw something up.



3. So confused about the 40/43/46 day thing. I want to do 43 days based on Colleen's website. Seems like the right thing to do. I thought it was 40 injections, skip one day a week which will get you to 46 days (skip 1 day a week for 6 weeks). Where did the 43 number come from??



4. I am skipping one fruit and doing 300g of protein like Cavemam. Is that right? Just checking.



5. I read different opinions via Google on intramuscular injections vs. subcutaneous injections. Didn't see how Colleen felt about one or the other on her website. I was doing the subcutaneous for now and working up to intramuscular. Anyone have a strong opinion about one vs. the other?



6. Anyone have an opinion on how long it's going take for me to get comfortable with doing my own injections? I made my husband do mine this morning, but I can tell he is pretty uncomfortable doing it. Don't get me wrong, he is super supportive. He just hasn't read as much as I have and I think he's a little freaked out (more that me!!). HA!

 

ok! Soooooo, what you just said was exactly what I said when I was at this stage. Thank god I bought extra vials. I dropped one and paniced that I jostled it too much, then I messed one up tryin to finess the whole pull liquid in and out of a syringe. IT SO DOESN"T "just work".



Ok, the way you mixed sounds exactly the way I did it, I did the HUCOG 2K vials, too. HEre is the good news, the injections are only hard the first 2 times. . .I got real lax after that and just ran to the bathroom after sneaking my vial out of the fridge and stuck it in my tummy. . .no drama with alcohol pads etc. That really is the easy part!!!! I stuck it in the fat in my tummy, changing sides every injection.



I did not do skip days at the start, and wish I would have! It helps you dial in your dose. For me 150 too much.. .I ramped it down until I found my sweet spot, and I mixed it up a bit from day to day depending on how I was feeling. I started with 175 - WAY TOO MUCH.



The 13 injections sounds right. I made all mine up at once so all I had to do was grab one from the fridge. Yea, just hide them in the trash when done. You will feel like a skanky junky for a few days, then you won't.



Post here when you are adjusting to the diet, I'll be happy to discuss! Did you read my post to someone else about fruit? I happen to think the 1 fruit a day (I say strawberry or apple) is a good idea. I also like it for the dinner, I think the little bit of carb helps with sleep - which can be sketchy when in such deep calorie dep/ketosis.



I would put everything in fridge just to be sure. I think with the dry vials it shouldn't make a diff (it was shipped un fridged right?) but I was not going to fail and worry it was because of some technicality. Keep the technicalities to a minimum so you can focus on your behaviors.



I could tell before I got to 40/43/46 days I was "done", so I quit a little early. I had quit losing and it seemed like a bit of a waste of effort!



The deal is 40 injection max, no matter how you do it. . .skip days are up to you, but seem like a good idea. I ignored TOM and powered through. In fact, my TOM started right when my VLC day started oooops!



Skip having hubby do it, just grab a prepared needle and run to the bathroom and shoot up in private like a junkie should!!!!

 

Also, I found chicken and beef to be most satisfying - the fishes left me thinking about the next meal.

 

OMG, Cavemam. Okay, feeling so much better about all of this. I think it was the whole emotional part of all of this that I wasn't prepared for. It took me awhile to mix last night and all the needles and vials had me a bit freaked out. I thought it was a bit hard to use the needles to inject - wasn't expecting that. I THOUGHT I was going to do fine (have been over-preparing mentally for 8 months) and then this morning I felt completely overwhelmed - lost my confidence.



Glad to hear about the 2 days to get comfortable with needles - I think you're right.



That's so helpful to know you messed with the dose each day. I like your "more lax" attitude with days and doses. Right now I feel like the whole program is very rigid and that scares me a bit - probably all the moderators talking in caps when people ask stupid questions (on other HCG forums). I know this is still a rigid program, don't get me wrong, but you helped make me feel like I'm not going to die over a missed day or something.

 

omg, I was totally freaking out injecting this vial of god knows what that I ordered from India based on random **** I read on the internets. Feeling weird about it is totally reasonable! My experience was that you do get over it pretty quickly. . .it helps that you will drop many pounds the first few days

 

Same here. It all seems very surreal now. Guess we will see. Thank you for all of your comments and suggestions!!

 

Sorry, I've been traveling and just saw this. You may need to lower your dose, just monitor your hunger. You should NOT be hungry on the right dose. Not weak either. And don't monkey with your dose without doing a skip day if you run into hunger or weakness. A skip day will tell you exactly what you need to do. if you feel better by 4 or 5, the dose is too high and you need to take it down. If no better then it's too low. But hopefully 150 iu will work.



And you need to get used to the iu and cc. cc and ml are the same thing. Iu is the amount of hcg in each dose. I usually pull out that tiny bit that's left over in a 2000 iu vial and go to the next vial to get the rest of the full dose. But then a duller needle doesn't scare me. Or you can do 2 shots that day. hope things are going well for you!

 

Thanks, Colleen! I have a dosing question today. Here's where I'm at:



EASY PEASY: Load Days - Dose 150iu

BAD DAY: Day 1 - Hunger 8; Mood & Energy 3; Dose 150iu

BAD DAY: Day 2 - Hunger 9; Mood & Energy 2; Dose 125iu

JUST A LITTLE BETTER: Day 3 - Hunger 6; Mood & Energy 4; Dose SKIPPED

MUCH BETTER: Day 4 - Hunger 3; Mood & Energy 7; Dose 125iu

BEST DAY YET: Day 5 - Hunger 2; Mood & Energy 8; Dose 125iu

Day 6 (so far) - Hunger 2; Mood & Energy 7; Dose 125iu



So things are FAR BETTER than they were the first 3 days. The first 3 days were miserable for me (I probably should have loaded 3 days). Thank you for your advice (on my blog post that you answered).



My question is that yesterday (Day 5 or Day 7 if you count load days) was *almost* perfect. I had great energy. I was down 1.5 this morning. I have lost 6.5 in all. I'm seeing numbers on the scale I haven't seen in 10 years. BUT I still have this annoying hunger in my belly and food thoughts popping in my head every 20-30 minutes (hunger-wise I'm a 2 out of 10 with 0 being no hunger). I have felt that way yesterday and today.



Which way should I go with the dose?? I tried 150iu in the beginning per your advice and now I'm at 125iu. I have learned I adjusted too fast though. Still just confused on whether to go up or down and by how much? Maybe just 10iu? Hunger is mostly constant throughout the day but was easing late last night.

 

I'm curious, who should do this? Are there any guidelines as to why anyone does it? Is this for when everything else fails? Does it matter how much you have to lose?

 

It's not a quick fix without damage kind of thing. I think you have to decide if losing Xpounds of fat will be worth the negatives. Seems that the successes are:



1. Yoyo dieters who've screwed up so much they can't lose weight anymore no matter what they do.

2. Those that are 10-20ish lbds overweight and their bodies just won't lose that fat no matter what they do.



I'm sure my perception is totally screwed because I'm coming FROM almost 400 lbds, but I see lots of "skinny" women overly concerned about that last 10 lbds or so, or freaking out because OMG I GAINED 5 LBDS I AM A BEAST! . . .I think you have to weigh the negatives of the extra fat cells compared to overall health.



Doing 500 calorie diet for 4-6 weeks wrecks many things, too. Just for some, it might be a better path to overall health as dropping 25 lbds of visceral fat is such a positive.



The thing is, it seems you MUST do it for a pretty legnthy time period. AND if you are in the obese category, I think it does burn fat from the visceral areas.



What I've not seen other than theory is if it just empties the fat cells, or actually destroys them. If it causes apoptosis - then I'd say it's good might outweigh its bad for more people. So far it's just the orginal docs message of saying it is so. None of the studies I've seen really indicate it's actually happening.



More importantly, you should not do this unless you are completely dialed in on a low carb paleo/epi paleo like a zealot. Without crazy zealotry eating the 6 weeks after the calorie restriction - you just undo all that hard work.



It's about dopamine, reward pathways and resetting metabolism. You will have to restrict to very few foods and sllllloowwwwwwly work them in. LOTS OF FOODS YOU CAN NOW EAT. I think it's a 16 week minimum proccess that you need to be laser focused on. And be prepared to end the calorie deprivation and still need to restrict like you have an ED.



There is lots of evidence that it works WITH your metabolism, and does not slow your metabolisim like calorie/exercise laden restrictions do. For that reason alone, is why you would consider it for weight loss. With out THAT factor, it would definately be easier just to fast and calorie restrict at a reasonable pace.

 

Thanks Mam. That was a lot of great input!!! I have never considered it before but I have gained weight recently. First with the HC this spring and now again which I think my progesterone is pushing my estrogen but not sure. I am not obese and you would probably slap me as I have less than 10 lbs but before I really didn't have any. I cannot stand what I just gained. I feel absolutely miserable in the boob/gut area. It irritates me all day. My pants are tight and I hate that too from a feel standpoint. I know I need to seriously CT again before I do anything. Ct'ing worked right before the HC and then nothing worked; but, since I'm off the HC, it might work and help a lot of other things. Hoping the t3 will kick in soon and warm me up. I have been so cold and just can't get into the cold tub, not to mention our house is around 64.

 

Cavemam, you are such a huge inspiration for me! I love your "can do" attitude.



That said, I don't fully agree with your thoughts on HCG. I don't believe those are the only 2 groups of people that HCG can help. I believe there is a large population of people that cannot lose weight, for whatever reason - food in a box I think. I don't believe that people can't lose weight because of yo-yo diets either; I believe it goes much deeper than that. I thought you also felt this way at some point? I haven't really yo-yo dieted much in my past but I have always been pretty chubby and ate pretty unhealthy foods growing up.



It wasn't until this year that I really started to notice that it has been almost impossible for me to lose weight without starving myself (I lost weight on WW, but that was calorie restriction which doesn't work).



I personally believe my weight problems have everything to do with hormones. I have had some pretty screwed up hormones my whole life and recently had a full panel done to check them. I'm amazed I am even functioning with the levels I'm at! No wonder I don't have a menstrual cycle.



For instance, I have always said "I'm allergic to the sun" (since the age of 13) and rarely go out in it because I get this weird heat-flushing reaction that is extremely painful. I am actually deathly afraid of the sun for the pain it has caused me in my life. But, as I've grown up and gotten smarter, I've dialed the issue down to something going wrong with my levels of T3/T4 - which again is a hormone thing. And as I've read more and more, I've found I have a large number of problems that all seem to be related to wonky hormone levels - keratosis, dry skin, being a night owl, depression, anxiety, exhaustion, my inability to play sports. . .things I've struggled with my whole life.



So, for me, there is a 3rd group of people HCG is awesome for and it is those who just can't lose weight - but not because of yo-yo dieting. I think maybe you are insinuating that, through voluntary actions of your own, you got to a level of 400 pounds. I, on the other hand, am on the other end of the spectrum maybe more so where Gary Taubes is at. My belief is that I don't think you had any control over that. I think it is the result of your environment, the crappy boxed foods that were available to you and your parents (from an educational and economical standpoint) and your genes.



That said, I really see no down side to HCG. What wrecking are you referring to? It doesn't mess with your metabolism, it removes those crazy unnecessary fat stores and it forces you to eat hard-core paleo which hopefully will be a habit we stick to long-term. I guess I could see one wrecking point to be that it is so restrictive that it probably has a high rate of failure, but even then I've haven't read where people lose 8 pounds, then fail and go on to gain 25 (like on other diets like WW).



Just my 2 cents.

 

There is so much about this last post that rubs me wrong I will just keep quiet.

 

My post? Let's here it. I'm all ears.

 

Unless Jack has something to add other than a drive-by passive agressive comment (sitting in traffic and feeling annoyed maybe?). . .I say this:



We actually are not that far off. I threw out "yo yo dieter" as my term, but it was a lazy choice of words. I was operating under the Cavemam world view that of course anybody fat has tried to lose weight. . .at least anybody old enough and wise enough to be here! But of course, there are many people that have more reasons than YO YO diet. . .I guess what I *meant* was those that can't seem to lose weight doing 'tried and true' programs that work for other people.



I love you brought up the Taubes book. Mentally, that was a watershed moment for me. Prior, I had been stuck in my very deep rut of self-viewed failure for not being able to stop myself from eating volumes of bad food. For gods sake (my old world view) everyone else I knew was able to control themselves.



When in fact, it was that one teeny-tiny little seed that was planted, that blossomed and probably built a key neural pathway that aided in my re-invention. It was the simple idea of fat storage was my body keeping me alive and protecting me from something else going on. I wasn't getting fat because I was eating too much (which of course I was), but I was eating too much to support my fat which might have a different reason for being there.



I remember exactly what I was doing when I heard that (I was listening to an audio book and painting my sons room). Something clicked with that one idea - and the world has been different since.



I love opposing opinions, they force me to:



1. Practice my objective muscle

2. Think through my view

3. Borrow and incorporate something I hadn't considered before - someone else's view/framework to add to my knowledgebase. Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree, understanding why someone has a particular perspective expands your own wisdom.



I am not sure about the hormone thing. I see it unfolding before my very eyes, and I'm not seeing what we all want to be true. What is unclear to me right now is what effects on your current body it will have. No argument on balancing them and being as healthy as possible. My question to explore is will it undo the harm (overfat) or will you have to make it worse before you make it better?



Will you need to get as healthy as possible. . .THEN take a few steps back on purpose to take care of some of the residual damage (over fat) and struggle a little more to get back to healthy?



I think that may be the answer for me. When I clean out a closet, the entire surrounding area looks like a bomb zone. But, when I'm done after all that hard work - it's container store photo ready. I think I may have to suck it up and face a closet cleaning day.

 

Okay. We are on the same page then. I just took "yo yo" dieter to mean maybe extreme starvtion, mini thins and ED and i think hcg is for more than that.



Funny about your apocoleptic moment with Taubes. I had the very same moment and that has changed my whole life (while painting my sons bedroom - just kidding).



I dont know about the hormome thing either. I didnt mean to insinuate that I did. Only that I think my weight and hormone problems are related (for me) and it makes me wonder if it similar for others (my mothers family which has really struggled with weight and mental health issues for years).



i do find it curious based on old journals, that i have a higher sense of well being, joy and positivity when i have been thinner.

 

I think this is a relevant factor - clearly that pharmacy in our heads is somehow effected by the outside world. Think about when you have a crush, and how you feel around them etc. Same thing with seeing a good old friend. Same thing (in a negative way) when you see someone you D R E A D.



One could argue that still, it's all things generated inside yourself and you just need to harness that. Having a child changed that for me. Any parent knows the sheer happy making chemicals just a hug or unsolicited smile from ones offspring can bring. I do think that others can and do influence us. . . thus when you are seen by the world as "lesser" and treated as such, how can that NOT make you feel bad.



The world simply reacts differently to better looking people. Fatter people are seen as less healthy, thus the tribe shuns them. It's really a viscious circle.



I to am genuinely happier when I'm feeling like my looks "fit in". It's seen over and over again in the human condition, like with wealth.



Once you have a baseline of met needs, then going over that doesn't necessarily translate into a happier state of being. I think the same thing for how you look. When you are in a state of being comfortable interacting with the world, then your baseline is met - and there isn't the same happy return on investment with being better looking.



Believe this - super wealthy people are no happier for their wealth than an average person, yet they are happier for their wealth than an impoverished one.



You could also say a super good looking person is no happier than an average looking person, yet they are happier because of their looks than someone very ugly.

 

i agree with you, differentstory. I LOVE hcg. Love it, love it. I tell everyone about it. It's changed my life. I could not lose weight any other way. No weight watchers, not low carb, not paleo, nothing else worked for me. You're right that hormonal problems are underlying all our problems. HCG fixes some stuff there. Then when you go forward and eat a good paleo diet, you can keep the weight off as long as you get your hormones in order.



I tend to see 3 problems when people regain. Either they go back to eating crappy food, or their hormones are messed up or they have a food sensitivity and keep eating that item (usually dairy if they are not eating grains.)

 

differentstory, on your dose, let's talk about it a bit. Have you skipped a day in the last 2 days? If so, how did you feel in the evening? If you haven't, go ahead and do that and examine how you feel after 3-5.



You may need to go up just a tad or down just a bit. And make sure you're not mistaking an empty feeling for hunger. I actually love that empty feeling.

 

vkiernan, I don't recommend hcg if you have less than 10 pounds to lose. It's the bomb if you have anything over 15 pounds to lose though. But you have to stay on it a minimum of 23 days and 30 is better. And you lose so quickly that you have to adjust things after the first week or 10 days.



You might take a look at Nora Gedgaudas diet which is pretty keto. That often works when you just need to lose a bit. Or try some intermittent fasting. If you read Pounds and Inches, the steak day Dr. Simeons recommends is basically intermittent fasting. You skip breakfast and lunch, then eat the biggest steak you can get down with an apple or a tomato. And you drink plenty of fluids that day. It often results in a loss of about 3 pounds. I know some people who have done 1 a week and lost just those few aggravating pounds.



I would get your hormones looked at if I were you though. Since you had to be on HC, you've got some other problems for sure.