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IV Methylene Blue

Discussion in 'Biohacking 101' started by Dylan Petkus, Sep 23, 2018.

  1. Dylan Petkus

    Dylan Petkus Quantum Clinician in Training

    So comparing IV MB to oral MB seems like comparing raw oysters to smoked oysters from china packed in soy bean oil.
    Yet, I can find very little on this site or elsewhere on how to administer IV MB.

    Is this one of those areas best saved for face-to-face conversations? We have plenty of people doing IV glutathione pushes, but I can't find anything in the Biohacking community about IV MB.

    Regardless, I was wondering if anybody has experience with this route of administration and is comfortable with sharing their experience. I have a friend who is planning to assemble a kit at the moment...
     
  2. Balfi

    Balfi New Member

    What about Iontophoresis? I am no expert. Please enlighten me.

    Link to study here.
     
  3. Corey Nelson

    Corey Nelson CoreyNelson.io

    You might be able to find a little more about protocols used in studies by plugging in studies' PMIDs into sci-hub. I haven't made a great effort to do so, but I will say that a cursory search shows that the study manuscripts themselves are fairly tight-lipped about it so far.

    The dose-response curve is definitely "U"-shaped but I think lots of people are using too little, and most of the self-purported high-grade sources are like $1-2 per mg (and 1mg/ml) which isn't enough to run a dose of 15-240mg per day like a lot of studies do (oral as well as IV). The dip in the "U" occurs at higher doses and adverse effects are rarely reported at the doses I just mentioned, but for some reason a lot of biohacker types consider that way too high.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  4. Corey Nelson

    Corey Nelson CoreyNelson.io

    "MB easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and accumulates in nervous tissue after intravenous or oral administration" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3265679/

    "The time course of methylene blue in whole blood after i.v. administration showed a multiphasic time course with an estimated terminal half-life of 5.25 h. Following oral administration, the area under the concentration-time curve was much lower (9 nmol/min/ml vs 137 nmol/min/ml). ...The urinary excretion of methylene blue and its leucoform was only moderately higher after i.v. administration (18% vs 28% dose). ...Differences in organ distribution of methylene blue are mainly responsible for the different pharmacokinetics after oral and i.v. administration. If methylene blue acts in the liver, where ifosfamide is primarily activated to reactive and potentially toxic metabolites, oral and i.v. methylene blue are likely to be equally effective. However, if the site of action is the central nervous system, i.v. methylene blue which results in much higher concentrations in brain seems preferable." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10952480

    See also post #7 in this thread.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    Paleodocteur and drezy like this.
  5. Corey Nelson

    Corey Nelson CoreyNelson.io

    "Methylene Blue Injection may cause serious or fatal serotonergic syndrome when used in combination with serotonergic drugs. Avoid concomitant use of Methylene Blue Injection with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs), and monoamine oxidase inhibitors ...Serotonin toxicity is characterized by development of neuromuscular hyperactivity (tremor, clonus, myoclonus and hyperreflexia, and, in the advanced stage, pyramidal rigidity); autonomic hyperactivity (diaphoresis, fever, tachycardia, tachypnoea, and mydriasis); and altered mental status (agitation, excitement, and in the advanced stage, confusion)...
    Methylene blue will produce two opposite actions on hemoglobin. Low concentrations will convert methemoglobin to hemoglobin. High concentrations convert the ferrous iron of reduced hemoglobin to ferric iron which results in the formation of methemoglobin...Methylene blue is metabolized in the body to leukomethylene blue which is excreted primarily in the urine. Some unchanged drug is also excreted in the urine....Methylene blue should not be given by subcutaneous or intrathecal injection....
    [Dosage is] 0.1 to 0.2 mL [of 1% a.k.a. 10mg/ml solution] per kg body weight (0.045 to 0.09 mL per pound body weight). Inject methylene blue intravenously very slowly over a period of several minutes.Methylene blue must be injected intravenously very slowly over a period of several minutes to prevent local high concentration of the compound from producing additional methemoglobin. Do not exceed recommended dosage..." https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=fde64824-2be5-4d85-8d57-5098ca6890bb

    "Methylene blue is a highly irritant drug and has been used intraoperatively. Its accidental extravasation can lead to tissue necrosis...Our patient developed skin necrosis following extravasation of MB used for the identification of suspected iatrogenic ureteric injury. Extravasation is the inadvertent leakage of injection into the subcutaneous or perivascular tissues. Approximately 10-30% of patients receiving IV MB experience this complication.[5] A number of mechanisms can result in the injection escaping the vein, e.g., the puncturing of vein wall either by a catheter or needle, obstructed infusion flow (blood can cause back pressure, leading to infusion escaping from the puncture site); or an inflammatory reaction in the vein can lead to retraction of the capillary endothelial cells and leakage of the infusing fluid. Mechanisms of tissue damage include vasomotor effects, pH disturbances, high osmolarity and chemical reactions" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4374232/

    "Within the limits of this [rat] study, it is concluded that methylene blue at pH 1.0 provides better biocompatibility than at pH 7.0." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28536783
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  6. drezy

    drezy Gold

    ^^^^^^ Aaahhh too bad, I just started a low necrosis lifestyle...
     
    Corey Nelson likes this.
  7. Corey Nelson

    Corey Nelson CoreyNelson.io

    I just ran across this study comparing absolute bioavailability of 50mg IV MB vs 500mg oral MB, and it looks like there's a nonlinear effect of bioavailability for oral MB [edit: in the full text, the study authors attribute the disparity vs. other MB bioavailability studies to better detection methods for whole blood and plasma MB levels]. I am planning on trialing larger doses (not 500mg though!) soon, will report results in my optimal journal.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  8. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Word on the street is that serious bio-hackers only take it rectally. <hides and waits to see if a crazy trend gets started out of a joke>
     
  9. Corey Nelson

    Corey Nelson CoreyNelson.io

    I mentioned this in my journal but I'm using it topically on one glute to heal a minor skin issue. Some may have dripped elsewhere, though...let's just say unless you enjoy an extremely itchy rectum, don't do it, lol.
     
    drezy likes this.
  10. drezy

    drezy Gold

    That's funny.

    I'm going to go ahead and figure your n=1 tells me all I need to know about that subject.
     
    Corey Nelson likes this.
  11. Dylan Petkus

    Dylan Petkus Quantum Clinician in Training

    MB burns when injected... good info!
     
    Corey Nelson likes this.
  12. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    https://peterattiamd.com/franciscogonzalezlima/

    This is a podcast with Prof Gonzalez Lima on Peter Attias site you may want to listen to before you go with larger doses. He is probably the authority on MB in the standard scientific world. I love MB but you need to have a protocol based on dose per kilogram, time of year, method of use,etc. Whether the study refers to oral or IV use and whether doses end results are transferable. Is your empiric use of dose consistent with what you read ? Lastly,does anybody know what chronic doses of oral MB do to the microbiome?
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  13. Corey Nelson

    Corey Nelson CoreyNelson.io

    I will check out the podcast soon. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!

    Yes, my empiric use protocol has been influenced by extensive reading in published literature. I've used the lowest reported doses with measured effect, and currently using a moderate dose relative to most doses used. The higher-dose protocol I'm going to trial is also based on a large dose used in a study I shared, which would be equivalent to my current daily dosage combined into one AM dose.

    No word as to chronic MB and microbiome. It's a good question. I could get an analysis done soon since I've used it consecutively for . I'll speak to Kriben at Allele. We'll see if I've got any issues at least, it isn't a controlled comparison, but it should rule out (or confirm the validity of) such concerns.
     
    Lahelada likes this.
  14. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    I figured that you probably had a good overview on the subject so you ay have come across Gonzalez Lima. I was writing more to the people who are looking to cadge a clue on the flyby re the use of methyene blue. If such people exist !

    The podcast is all very interesting but the MB part starts in the latter half.
    Success with your hacks. I am really interested in the microbiome results if you decide to do them. I think you would also neeed to relate the results of that with the colour of urine or better how much of uchanged MB is in it.
     
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