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Iodine, Epi-paleo Rx, thyroid, and carb linkage

Discussion in 'The Epi-Paleo Diet' started by Jack Kruse, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    You all need to read this paper. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15142639 …

    The paper has some issues but nothing major which eliminates it from consideration. Its data suggests that modern levels of T3 are 1.5 times higher than they were before the agricultural revolution of carbohydrates for modern humans. This appears to give the idea that iodine deficiency diseases are more likely the result of excess dietary carbohydrate than lack of iodine in the diet. Or more aptly put, if you eat more carbs you need a ton more seafood. T3 is designed to drop when dietary glucose is low. This set of circumstance needs to be examined a bit. This implies that the human body seeks tight control on glucose. It opens my curiosity why glucose has to be kept in a restricted range within tissues and plasma. It also implies humans have a very active mechanism to use glucose first as we saw in EMF 4. Mind you this is not out of preference for glucose as a metabolic fuel source. It appears to people that since glucose is used first it is preferred when in reality it is something harmful to mitochondria chronically so the body looks to clear it fast. To me, it appears the body is handling it when present in excess amounts, as a toxin to be removed until proper levels are reestablished. Now if you have hypothyroidism........you got to ask yourself are you low in T3 and eating too little fat and too many carbs. This is where I see most of the people in hypothyroid land.

    The implications for those with hypothyroidism should be very clear: The smaller the amount of T3 required to process blood sugar, the greater the amount available to perform more important metabolic functions, like converting LDL cholesterol to pregnenolone. This is why one must focus on the personal context and not the labs alone. It leads to myopic thinking. I see this a lot from Guyenet and Jaminet when they talk about T3 and carb loads.

    CITES:
    Kopp W.: Nutrition, evolution and thyroid hormone levels – a link to iodine deficiency disorders?; Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(6):871-5.

    Abstract: An increased iodine requirement as a result of significant changes in human nutrition rather than a decreased environmental iodine supply is suggested to represent the main cause of the iodine deficiency disorders (IDD). The pathomechanism proposed is based on the fact that serum concentrations of thyroid hormones, especially of trijodothyronine (T3), are dependent on the amount of dietary carbohydrate. High-carbohydrate diets are associated with significantly higher serum T3 concentrations, compared with very low-carbohydrate diets. While our Paleolithic ancestors subsisted on a very low carbohydrate/high protein diet, the agricultural revolution about 10,000 years ago brought about a significant increase in dietary carbohydrate. These nutritional changes have increased T3 levels significantly. Higher T3 levels are associated with an enhanced T3 production and an increased iodine requirement. The higher iodine requirement exceeds the availability of iodine from environmental sources in many regions of the world, resulting in the development of IDD.
     
    Brother John, kovita and Hope2Learn like this.
  2. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    and Flouride affects T3?
     
  3. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    Got it. Essentially the lines of causality drawn by most practitioners are in the the wrong direction.

    Carbs drive the need for more T3, and the body tries to increase T3 as a compensatory mechanism.

    The reason that people "feel better" on higher carb diets whilst having hypothyroidism, is then because carbs provide FAST energy.


    ---

    The following ramblings are me thinking aloud after listening to Dominic D'Agostino in his recent interview with John Kiefer: https://soundcloud.com/body-io-fm/the-ketogenic-diet-and-cancer

    Oncogenes were mentioned in that podcast, and the speculation was made that these genes may actually be the "original" genetic material of a cell back when it took a more primitive form.

    That is, before the cell managed to engulf and take control of mitochondria, it depended largely on glycolytic pathways, and it's sole role was to replicate itself further. (sounds like cancer ...)

    Engulfing a mitochondria basically introduced a whole new set of cellular regulatory mechanisms as a tradeoff of being able to produce a ton load more energy for the cell through the mitochondrial ETC.

    I need to wait for Jack to return to writing more about mitochondria


    ---

    Another thing that Dominic has always stressed is that exogenous ketones (esters or salts) work best with an already ketogenic diet.

    That led me thinking about what would happen if you put a high-carb diet with ketone salts (as most modern humans would).

    Obviously the body would need to "get rid" of the carbs, but how would ETC function with competing substrates? (this is related to the Hyperlipid reference below)

    And of course, different tissues use carbs and fat differently; key quote from Dominic: "you almost NEVER see cancer in muscle cells".


    ---

    I'm currently reading Pollack's 'Fourth Phase of Water' book, and in Chapter 6, he talks about how the de-structuring of structured (EZ) water can produce a lot of ROS if there isn't adequate levels of hydronium ions to re-form H2O. He states that this could happen if there are other strongly negatively charged molecules present to pull said hydronium ions away from the EZ boundary, while simultaneously having other protons (salts!!) that penetrate and disrupt the EZ planes to destroy an EZ region.

    I'm still thinking about situations where this would occur. Obviously, not having a biology or physics degree means that I'm not familiar enough with the concepts.

    When is the blog going to start covering protons! :D


    ---

    Speaking of protons, this also reminds me of Peter's (of Hyperlipid) proton 34 blog post (http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2014/01/protons-34-rotenone.html), which I made some notes of here: http://tanyewwei.com/notes/hyperlipid-protons-34

    A paraphrased quote from him:

    which is true given HIGH insulin sensitivity and lots of glucose.

    Now, I'm sure complex I dysfunction isn't a black-or-white definition, and eating carbs have a huge impact on that.

    ---


    Anyway, enough incoherent rambling for now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  4. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Yew - at least you know enough to ramble .... I am at a total loss here......

    This is all so painfully complex. I get the overall picture generally ..... but I don't think that is going to cut it this time.

    To be able to get a good grasp - I think we are going to have to be facile with the whole E.E. series and be able to apply them as needed.

    Yew - have you read Pollack's earlier book - Cell gels etc.?
     
  5. Hope

    Hope Gold

    So then I wonder...how much of my less than optimal FT3 is because I have been eating Epi paleo and generally low carb for 5 years...rather than having issues with the Vitamin A cycle etc.....which I am certain I do in the EMF bath I live in.

    But it is fascinating nonetheless.....

    I have heard this though....some people insist they can't feel well without enough carbs....though they don't get the reason why they feel lousy...it's not because they were low carb before, but bc they are lacking the building stones to create the energy they need....plus they will be more dehydrated. Wow.

    Isn't all this in EMF4 from last year?
     
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Yes.......T3 has three iodine atoms and Fluoride blocks the function of iodine because of its electronegativity
     
  7. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    yep........if you have not figured out my blog plan yet here it is........life is an onion because it is built in layers. These layers are scales that go from the macrocosm of what you all believe based upon what you are told, believe, and observe........all the way down to how water charge separates normally when infrared energy and a hydrophilic protein is around. I am trying to show you each layer and allow you to see how life jumps off from one peel to the next so when we are done it all makes sense.
     
    rlee314 likes this.
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    low carb, highish fat, (my best version of Epi-Paleo-Rx) + S Pellegrino
    50mg/day iodne/iodide
    2grains natural thyroid

    TSH=1.3
    T4=4.3 (4.5-12)ug/dL

    T3, Total 79(71-180)ng/dL
    T3, Free 300(200-440)pg/dL
    T3, Reverse 6.0(9.2-24.1) ng/dL=60(92-241)pg/mL
    FT3/RT3=50.0 A healthy FT3/RT3 ratio is 20 or greater.
    T3/RT3=13.2 A healthy T3/RT3 ratio is 10 or greater.

    body temp 36.6C
    --------------

    Question;

    is my T3, Total low?


    ................................
     
  9. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    no.........better question is can your burn fat and how is your redox potential.......low T3 levels and longevity have been linked in many places.......
     
  10. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    This Intrigues me - as I've been focused on being Keto, eating epi-paleo etc. yet my labs show I'm hyper (Armour dosing too high maybe - we've backed off 2x so far) yet I'm showing hypo signs along with EXCESSIVE E dominance, as well as adipose insulin resistance, but no issues with glycemic control or beta cell function. so my next question is how does cytochrome 1 directly impact thyroid production and estrogen clearance.....

    Trying to find the full text of this document....
     
  11. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    But I don't see how we are going to control for all the flouride? or does it follow that if our redox potential is great we can handle this too? I guess it must.....

    My Doc thinks I may be slightly hypo and asked if I wanted meds. I declined because I have no symptoms ... so now i know my lowish T3 is okay!
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  12. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    So when I discovered how much better I do with a lot of fat - I really found my rosetta stone? That's what it feels like.

    Since I feel great i must be burning fat as fuel - no problem .... so my redox potential must be okay?
     
  13. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    How to figure out if I can burn enough fat?
    My goal is to be able to eat about 50%(by calories) variety of fats.
    When I eat too much fat my stools start running, specially applicable to coconut oil.
    Two tbsp CO at one time ok, 3 is too much when at one time but ok when split breakfast/dinner. (I eat 2x).
    I eat also butter, lard, beef tally, nuts, olive oil, etc.
    The other factor that influences stool's consistency is magnesium.

    I eat all three types of magnesium at times and doses as mentioned by you in mitochondrial webinar.
    The magnessium types that you advise are least affecting stool consistency, but likely they do it to some extend.
    I am thinking that if I would reduce or skip magnesium I could tolerate more fat.

    What to choose? Fat or magnesium?


    .....


    You have made some issue about seafood from west coast of USA, due to radiation issue,
    then
    you approved seaweed that grows much close to the source of radiation.
    Would you like to discuss that?

    My shucked oysters come from Washington state.
    .....
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Fat...............
     
  15. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Jan .... why not split up your fat/coconut oil more? between more meals? I personally would go with more fat and less mag.
    but I do find that I am needing mag too.

    Remember that Dr. K. has said if we have a good redox potential we/ our body can handle stuff ... it does it's own housekeeping. I think that is where we have been going wrong .... we are trying to manipulate mother nature ..... and she is having none of it!

    Much more fat is huge for me .... I am radiating energy from every pore ....every single person that comes in contact with me starts a conversation. Yesterday I had a lengthy C/T convo with the guy who came to check my smoke detector. He has had multiple neck/back surgeries and is a fire fighter.....and he spends his day looking up at smoke alarms! It is always so clear.
     
  16. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    What about other halogens? They're all more reactive than I, after all:

    http://www.nelsonthornes.com/secondary/science/scinet/scinet/reaction/react/halogs.htm



    Chlorine? From swimming pools and bleach, for example.


    Bromine? That's around:

    http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/4015fact.pdf

    It's in flame-retardants -- and in soft-drinks in the U.S., too:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011/12/15/flame-retardant-in-your-mountain-dew-yep/



    Are other halogen ions a problem, or potentially so?
     
  17. ATL_Paleo

    ATL_Paleo Gold

    Dr. Mercola calls bromine "the bully of the halide group". http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/thyroid-health_b_472953.html

    This article includes a discussion of a common source of bromines .... bread and baked goods. Another good reason to avoid grains.
    --------------

    When you ingest or absorb bromine, it displaces iodine, and this iodine deficiency leads to an increased risk for cancer of the breast, thyroid gland, ovary and prostate -- cancers that we see at alarmingly high rates today. This phenomenon is significant enough to have been given its own name -- the Bromide Dominance Theory.

    Aside from its effects on your endocrine glands, bromine is toxic in and of itself. Bromide builds up in your central nervous system and results in many problems. It is a central nervous system depressant and can trigger a number of psychological symptoms such as acute paranoia and other psychotic symptoms.

    In fact, in an audio interview, physician Jorge Flechas reported that, between 1920 and 1960, at least 20 percent of all hospital admissions for "acute paranoid schizophrenia" were a result of ingesting bromine-containing products.

    In addition to psychiatric problems, bromine toxicity can manifest as the following:

    •Skin rashes and severe acne

    •Loss of appetite and abdominal pain

    •Fatigue

    •Metallic taste

    •Cardiac arrhythmias
     
  18. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    Thanks.

    Oh, lord! In bread in the U.S. -- and Britain and Canada until the 90s. Actually, I find it interesting that the supermarkets having mostly put the butchers, fishmongers, greengrocers, and bakers out of business over the past twenty or thirty years, the bakeries are now coming back. I wouldn't eat bread, but it's telling that even bread-eaters can't stand the product they're expected to eat under the name "bread". Our local town now has two craft bakeries opened over the past year -- unbleached flours, long fermentation of the dough, etc. The supermarkets are now trying to hit back with "in-store bakeries" -- they'd sooner just sell people something in a plastic bag, of course -- but their stuff is still fairly low-grade, so there's plenty of business for craft-bakeries.

    The other boom area for craft products in food and drink is microbreweries. There are now something like thirty in our county -- all over the past ten years and most far more recent. Beer is also, of course, a gluten-containing product. Still, I think both phenomena are interesting and helpful: there are enough people -- a minority, sure, but enough -- who won't take whatever's thrown at them by supermarkets and "food-manufacturers". We need revolts like this.


    And doubtless another reason for the increase in hypothyroidism.

    … Yes, that's what he's saying:

     
  19. sooperb

    sooperb New Member

    We have had bread in local supermarket from a craft bakery for several years. The wholemeal is £2.70 a loaf, a sliced wholemeal loaf from a national baker is around £1 cheaper and in some stores like Aldi/Lidl can be nearly £1.70 cheaper. Where money is an issue, most people will buy the cheaper bread because they have to. We stopped eating bread nearly 2 years ago, I seldom miss it. On the odd occasion when we have it, I haven't been moved to pick it up again. That said, I read about Einkorn flour, made by Doves Farm in the UK, which is allegedly grown exactly as it was in ancient times, i.e. it has not been genetically altered in any way. I read also that someone compared his blood sugars after eating a. commercially made bread and b. a loaf made from this flour. It seems, and I agree you couldn't call it conclusive based on one bloke, that the Einkorn flour bread hardly raised his bs at all compared to the commercial stuff.
     
  20. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Einkorn wheat is the last wheat grass from biblical times. Bill Davis talks about that in his book
     

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