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How to make DDW, do you buy this 50ppm #?

Discussion in 'Ask Jack' started by JanSz, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  2. drezy

    drezy Gold

  3. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Rich is relative. It is a mind set.

    ...
     
  4. drezy

    drezy Gold

    You'd be wiping with $100 bills. That's not a mindset.
     
  5. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    There is also the Hindenburg BOOM BOOM way to make a water.

    //
     
  6. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Over all it looks more like,
    it is much easier to make real good moonshine than lousy DDW.

    And the apparatus for moonshine for some reason does not work for DDW.

    Is that because of the HDO is messing with D2O?

    //
     
    Lahelada likes this.
  7. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I freeze and thaw my water FYI
     
  8. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Wait I can see it now from tracking all this over the years... here's one of those personal decision moments around here:
    1. Wait arms crossed for all the science to be laid down and understood and then one slowly remove one's bias
    2. Money see doc monkey do (experience benefit bias be damned)
     
    Lahelada likes this.
  9. Jonathin

    Jonathin Gold Member

    How about precisely controlling freezing temp between D2O and H2O to get ice separation? Would be interesting to do some testing. I don't see anybody in youtube land or elsewhere doing any. Seems like a doable engineering problem to get some worthwhile results, maybe not 25ppm but . . .
     
    drezy likes this.
  10. drezy

    drezy Gold

    That keeps swirling around my head too(pun intended) especially if you could vortex the water ever so slowly...
     
  11. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Water is a mixture of at least three components
    H2O, DHO and D2O
    if one does not count variety of O isotopes.
    All that melts or freezes within couple degrees
    theoretically it is doable,
    engineering is little more complicated.

    Think of distillation column of about 40 steps where there is a difference of couple degrees between bottom (hot) and top (cold but still vapor).

    Draft of air in the room where this column is placed may make a big temperature difference.

    If
    you have more available data on this waters, it may help.
    Please post it.

    ...
    https://www.cignaturehealth.com/pages/resources-faq/#toggle-id-5


    Deuterium-depleted water is produced by an energy-demanding technology based on differences in the physicochemical properties of normal water (H2O) and heavy water (2H2O). Due to a boiling point difference of merely 1.5°C, the concentration of heavy water (with higher boiling point) is lower in the vapour phase and this fact is utilized for producing deuterium-depleted water. By repeating evaporation several times in so-called distillation columns, the deuterium content of water can be reduced to any level.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
    drezy likes this.
  12. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Yep
     
  13. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Need good water data.

    ================
    Ethanol/Boiling point
    173.1°F
    78.37°C

    Water
    212°F

    ============================
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

    For example, an ethanol-water mixture (obtained by fermentation of sugars) on fractional distillation yields a solution containing approximately 95% by volume of ethanol. Once this composition has been achieved, the liquid and vapour have the same composition, and no further separation occurs.
     
  14. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_distillation
    Fractional_distillation
    (Not sure if this applies to DDW)(missing data)

    Fractional_distillation
    Discussion
    As an example consider the distillation of a mixture of water and ethanol. Ethanol boils at 78.4 °C while water boils at 100 °C. So, by heating the mixture, the most volatile component (ethanol) will concentrate to a greater degree in the vapor leaving the liquid. Some mixtures form azeotropes, where the mixture boils at a lower temperature than either component. In this example, a mixture of 96% ethanol and 4% water boils at 78.2 °C; the mixture is more volatile than pure ethanol. For this reason, ethanol cannot be completely purified by direct fractional distillation of ethanol-water mixtures.
     
  15. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Lets go back on farm.
    Or military nuclear facility.
    Lets start with farm.
    Cream is lighter than fat free milk.
    Light water should run out from the cream spout,
    if we run tap water thru centrifuge.
    100L/hr of incoming water. 1.6 liter/minute
    What ppm we should expect on the cream spout ?
    If it would not work why not.


    @Jack Kruse
    @drezy
    @Da-mo
    @WalterNL



    https://tinyurl.com/yb3yysdu

    upload_2018-2-23_7-31-43.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zippe-type_centrifuge
    Centrifuge uranium enrichment
    Enriching uranium is difficult because the isotopes are practically identical in chemistry and very similar in weight: U-235 is only 1.26% lighter than U-238. Separation efficiency in a centrifuge depends on weight difference. Separation of uranium isotopes requires a centrifuge that can spin at 1,500 revolutions per second (90,000 RPM).

    ===================================

    http://dairyprocessinghandbook.com/chapter/centrifugal-separators-and-milk-standardization
    Describes separation process + formulae & equations.

    upload_2018-2-23_7-58-27.png
    upload_2018-2-23_7-45-32.png

    WHAT RPM we need on centrifuge that would separate D2O and DHO from H2O

    /////
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  17. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    http://www.fusor.net/board/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6962
     
    JanSz likes this.
  18. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Maybe you guys need some Trojans.

    Trojan wave packet that is (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope_separation) :
    Quite recently yet another scheme has been proposed for the deuterium separation using Trojan wavepackets in circularly polarized electromagnetic field. The process of Trojan wave packet formation by the adiabatic-rapid passage depends in ultra-sensitive way on the reduced electron and nucleus mass which with the same field frequency further leads to excitation of Trojan or anti-Trojan wavepacket depending on the kind of the isotope. Those and their giant, rotating electric dipole moments are then π[​IMG]-shifted in phase and the beam of such atoms splits in the gradient of the electric field in the analogy to Stern–Gerlach experiment.


    And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_wave_packet

    Looks like stirring except with a controlled magnetic field
     
    JanSz likes this.
  19. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    I remember reading something once about pre-stressing the water molecules using alternating magnetic feild at resonant frequency to lower the energy required for electrolysis.

    If you seperate the H and D from the O via electrolysis, it should then be much easier to seperate H from D as gases since the mass ratio is much higher. It may be that theyu will stratify under normal gravity - tap the top of the storage vessel for H and the bottom for D???

    Then recombine through a fuel cell to recover some of the energy expended and produce H2O and D2O seperately as byproducts. Yet another argument for a hydrogen energy economy.
     
  20. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    My friend in Poland have 26 step distillation column.
    It makes pretty good moonshine. More like decent industrial 95% alcohol.
    But he have a "luxury" of large temperature gradient.
    Boiling point 100C vs 78.24 ± 0.09[2] °C, so almost 22 °C delta(T)
    Mixtures of ethanol and water form an azeotrope at about 89 mole-% ethanol and 11 mole-% water[56] or a mixture of 95.6 percent ethanol by mass (or about 97% alcohol by volume) at normal pressure, which boils at 351K (78 °C). This azeotropic composition is strongly temperature- and pressure-dependent and vanishes at temperatures below 303 K.[57]
    -----------------

    With DDW we are dealing wit 1.5 °C difference bottom to top of column.


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