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How to access your doctor's knowledge of methylation:

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by Jack Kruse, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Ways to know your doctor doesn't have a clue about methylation: 

    1. He gives you FOLIC acid. 
    2. He gives you methyl folate, but without any B12. 
    3. He starts your dose of methylfolate at 20mg. 

    4. He doesn't control inflammation. 
    5. He gives you methyl folate in high doses when you're not having a bowel movement every day. 

    Discuss.............
     
    Brent Patrick and labellavita like this.
  2. Thor

    Thor Banned

    .

    There's even more it than that - there's only one Medical Doctor in the entire US that as a clue about this matter.  DR KENDAL STEWART, MD

    He using transdermal formulas that by-pass the liver.  With gut issues you're lucky to get a 5% absorption rate from oral MTHF Tx

     

    I've spoke with over 100 Doctors (MD & ND)  NONE of them had a clue about MTHFR SNP & proper treatment.  Choline is needed in larger doses, TMG is needed in larger doses and the list goes on.   MTHFR along with the SNP called SHMT affects Iron Levels - wonder why people have wacky Iron levels? Look at the role of SHMT & Iron - amazing.  Plus, too much Iron like I have along with most men causes germs to be MORE Virulent.

     

    I could write a 50,000 page article on this matter alone.  If Doctors don't have a clue what & how genetics affect a patient - they can kill them.

    I just had doctor try and put me on Niacin - Dear God !  Just one dose of Niacin is enough to send me into the hospital.  Niacin is a Methyl Sponge!   Niacin also plays a role in the COMT SNP - and it can dump lithium.   Then if a Doctor puts you on L-Dopa supplements - with COMT gene he better have BH4 onboard. 

     

    Bottom line:  Trying to treat MTHF patients is very tricky and I know first hand.  I'm having a horrible time finding a local doctor to help. ugh....

     

    http://youtu.be/J5m2jfiSnN4[/video]][video=youtube_share;J5m2jfiSnN4]http://youtu.be/J5m2jfiSnN4[/video]
     
  3. Thor

    Thor Banned

    [​IMG]

     

    The conversion of 5,10-methylen-THF into 5-methyl-THF, which is catalysed by MTHFR, is irreversible. The only way to make  further use of 5-methyl-THF and to maintain the folate cycle consists in the  vitamin-B12-dependent remethylation of homocysteine to methionine (regenerating  THF). The methyl group transfer is therefore greatly dependent on 5-methyl-THF  and the availability of vitamin-B12. In humans, this is the only known  direct link of the metabolism of two vitamins; folic acid and vitamin-B12 both  need each other.
     
    In cases of vitamin-B12 deficiency, it is possible that, in  spite of sufficient availability of folates (and 5-methyl-THF), an intracellular  deficiency of biologically active THF arises. This situation is called a ‘folate  trap’ (or methyl group trap) because, on the one hand, the concentration of  5-methyl-THF continues to rise but, on the other hand, due to it being prevented  from releasing methyl groups, a ‘metabolic dead-end situation’ develops, which  leads to the inevitable blockage of the methylation cycle. The co-factors for  the C1-transfers decrease and replication as well as the cell division rate are  reduced. Hence, the principal problem is the decreasing activity of methionine  synthase under vitamin-B12 deficiency with secondary disorders affecting the  folate metabolism and insufficient de-novo synthesis of purines and pyrimidines.  The deficiency in active folic acids first affects the quickly dividing and  highly proliferating haematopoiesis cells in the bone marrow and can even lead  to pancytopenia.
     
    Clinically, there is now no difference between vitamin-B12 deficiency anaemia  and folic acid deficiency anaemia. If such an anaemia is treated with  vitamin-B12, the blockage is immediately stopped and the blood count
      quickly normalises. However, if the anaemia is exclusively treated with folic  acid, it is simply converted to dihydrofolate and THF.
     
    Long-term therapy using high doses of folic acid could therefore conceal the  real cause i.e. pernicious (vitamin B12-deficiency) anaemia for a long time. The  serum folate continues to rise (congestion of non-regenerated 5-methyl-THF)  while the intracellular folate concentration (erythrocytes) drops. This  situation interrupts the methylation cycle with numerous cell processes, among  them the synthesis of myelin, the nerve fibre lining, being blocked due to a  deficiency of methyl groups. A long undetected (causal) vitamin-B12-deficiency
    can therefore result in  serious neurological damage.
     
    Exclusive folic acid therapy can lead to damage to your health  or even death.
     
  4. freshveggies

    freshveggies Silver

    It turns out that if the MTHFR mutation is turned on in early childhood, that child has a high probability of developing an Autism spectrum disorder.  However, there are hundreds of thousands of adults with MTHFR, but they don’t have autism.  Why not?  It’s all about the timing of the  mutation being turned on.  If MTHFR is turned on later in life, such as during late adulthood, there is a high probability of a neuro-immune syndrome, such as Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, ALS, etc.  In fact, it’s quite common to see kids on the autism spectrum that have grandparents or older relatives with MS, Parkinson’s, etc.  If MTHFR is turned on during early childhood, one will have to work much harder to correct the issue than if it were turned on during adulthood.

    http://functionmedicine.com/blog/?p=63

    by Dr. Tim Jackson.   He trained with Dr. Stewart and will do phone consults. 

    http://www.mthfrsupport.com/dr-tim-jackson.html
     
  5. I'm just learning about this while investigating my 23andme results, finally!  I need to watch the videos posted here (thanks for those).  But what does a person do if the results on the SNMT is "no call"?  I haven't come across an explanation of what that means.
     
  6. freshveggies

    freshveggies Silver

     

    All no-call variant types indicate that the sequence could not be fully resolved, either because of limited or no information, or because of contradictory information.
     
  7. Thanks!  That's what I thought but I hoped I could get some, even if only a little, information out of it.


    Just realized I didn't catch the typo....should have been SHMT. 
     
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Tim Jackson is a good friend........if you want a connection let me know.
     
  9. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    ‎"Autism Night Before Christmas"
    written by Cindy Waeltermann

    -----
    Twas the Night Before Christmas

    And all through the house
    The creatures were stirring
    Yes, even the mouse

    We tried melatonin
    And gave a hot bath
    But the holiday jitters
    They always distract

    The children were finally
    All nestled in bed
    When nightmares of terror
    Ran through my OWN head

    Did I get the right gift
    The right color
    And style
    Would there be a tantrum
    Or even, maybe, a smile?

    Our relatives come
    But they don’t understand
    The pleasure he gets
    Just from flapping his hands.

    “He needs discipline,†they say
    “Just a well-needed smack,
    You must learn to parent…â€
    And on goes the attack

    We smile and nod
    Because we know deep inside
    The argument is moot
    Let them all take a side

    We know what it’s like
    To live with the spectrum
    The struggles and triumphs
    Achievements, regressions…

    But what they don’t know
    And what they don’t see
    Is the joy that we feel
    Over simplicity

    He said “helloâ€
    He ate something green!
    He told his first lie!
    He did not cause a scene!

    He peed on the potty
    Who cares if he’s ten,
    He stopped saying the same thing
    Again and again!

    Others don’t realize
    Just how we can cope
    How we bravely hang on
    At the end of our rope

    But what they don’t see
    Is the joy we can’t hide
    When our children with autism
    Make the tiniest stride

    We may look at others
    Without the problems we face
    With jealousy, hatred
    Or even distaste,

    But what they don’t know
    Nor sometimes do we
    Is that children with autism
    Bring simplicity.

    We don’t get excited
    Over expensive things
    We jump for joy
    With the progress work brings

    Children with autism
    Try hard every day
    That they make us proud
    More than words can say.

    They work even harder
    Than you or I
    To achieve something small
    To reach a star in the sky

    So to those who don’t get it
    Or can’t get a clue
    Take a walk in my shoes
    And I’ll assure you

    That even 10 minutes
    Into the walk
    You’ll look at me
    With respect, even shock.

    You will realize
    What it is I go through
    And the next time you judge
    I can assure you

    That you won’t say a thing
    You’ll be quiet and learn,
    Like the years that I did
    When the tables were turned……
     
  10. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    That brings tears to my eyes. - how beautiful........certainly puts things in perspective in a hurry.
     
  11. RiverNeighbor

    RiverNeighbor New Member

    I've had this issue in my notebook to find out more about since having cat pee when I started the leptin Rx....  at the time it broke my brain reading and thinking about it because each time I would read about methylation it seemed to be talking about different cells/systems/organs (I don't even know how to communicate about it). 

    Now that I see some of this information it is making more sense - there are different genes that control different parts of methylation.

    It sounds like treatment depends on which gene sequence has the mutation?  And there's a lot of possibilities to look at - some on the 23andme and some on another test? I don't understand why it isn't all available from the 23andme data?

     

    So step one is to understand the gene sequence that is off.  Step two is to understand the pathway that is affected .  Step three is to treat. 

     

    Can the genetic switches be turned back to normal or is it a once broken, always broken type deal? 

     

    OMG my head is going to explode... where's my B12 so I can focus [​IMG]
     
  12. fitness@home

    fitness@home Silver

    Jack,

    Ironically, I emailed Dr Tim today requesting a consult. Last night I had a phone consult with Sterling regarding MTHFR and my 23andme. She recommended I speak with DrTim regarding my results.

    The deeper I dig, the more I find. Need help understanding all of this though. That's why I'll be going to a MTHFR meeting on Saturday in The Woodlads. Meeting others, asking questions, and hopefully getting recommendations for local doctors with methylation experience.
     
  13. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    The video link to Dr. Stewart's lecture is worth listening to. There are a few different sections to the lecture. Really adds to understanding how dopamine and fats work in the brain....a good addition to Dr. K's blogs. ..it's all fitting together more. I was completely lost when I first started to look into methylation, but now it makes a lot more sense. Freshveggie's links are really excellent too. Thanks!

     

    RiverNeighbor...I think we are all so individual with our different genetic predispositions, our triggers, switches etc. I think there is a role for some expert advise (maybe Tim Jackson or one of the other Dr.s) if this is a significant problem for you. 
     
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Good........when you know better you do better.  
     
  15. RiverNeighbor

    RiverNeighbor New Member

    Oh boy,  after watching all the videos I went back and looked at my labs from last fall.  At the time I was excited that I didn't have a high homocysteine and had a high folate level.  Oops.  After looking at them again this morning I see things in a whole different light...  below the good range for homocysteine and too high folate.  Ugh.  

     

    "When you know better you do better."

    Sometimes this seems like such an encouragement.  Like going through a dark tunnel and coming out on the other end to be bathed in bright, warm, sunlight.  Then basking in the sunlight like one would be in awe of the signs of spring after a bleak winter.  Other times it seems more like, "If I knew better, I would do better."  And it feels like a dream of being bathed in bright, warm, sunlight, but being caught in the choking darkness of a system of tunnels that never seem to lead to the light... 
     
  16. fitness@home

    fitness@home Silver

    +1. I can really relate to what you have expressed.
     
  17. Inger

    Inger Silver

    RiverNeighbour, do not despair! I am one that can afford almost no labs. I do not let this fact make me depressed at all. Instead I do it had core. There is always a way. To be very strict with foods, 100% epi paleo and raw, makes wonder for me. If I just eat some regular almonds and drink some HWC I immidiately feel the consequenses. I know 100% when food is superior, and I give myself rest and all the other things I know for healing like CT and darkness, it will work. I have no doubt at all. It might take longer, but it will go forward. I am refusing to believe healing is not possible without labs. There are many ways. I see light in so many tunnels RiverNeighbour!
     
  18. If you have 23andme data (which I think you do) you can go to www.geneticgenie.org, upload your 23andme data and get a printout of your methylation genes to show which ones are off.  So much easier than trying to do it on your own. 


    Also www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm has some good info on it.
     
  19. RiverNeighbor

    RiverNeighbor New Member

    Patty,  that's wonderful info, thank you!   I don't have 23andme results right now,  but bookmarking!
     
  20. endless

    endless New Member

    Can someone please point me in the direction of the appropriate blog that starts teaching about this? The search function does not work for me.
     

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