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Histamine Help and more

Discussion in 'Adrenal Rx and Leaky Gut Rx' started by SeaHorse, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    I would like to start a thread for those of us who are dealing with histamine issues from food. Also I've been trying to get a handle on other food components like oxalates, salicylates and FODMAPs.



    I guess it was a revelation that histamines in food could be such a problem. If you don't have enough diamine oxidase enzyme to break down histamine it causes all the reactions that seem like classic allergy responses. But you won't test positive on an allergy workup. www.allergyuk.org is a good place to start research. Then you can have too many mast cells in your body which are all too happy to spill histamine at the drop of a hat. Google "histadalia" and "mastocytosis" to read about the connections.



    I had my eyes opened this year when I started the GAPS diet and went into a huge decline. Aside from detoxing I knew something else had to be going on....well fermented foods, leftovers (think broths that sit in the fridge) eggs. etc. etc. all of these foods have high histamine content. Then there are the foods that can trigger histamine release in your body: tomatoes, chocolate, shellfish, canned fish, chicken, tea, vinegar...the list goes on.



    Part of my road to optimal is healing my leaky gut and getting a grip on the food intolerances...I really want to be able to eat a lot of shellfish!



    What I've done so far:

    I'm experimenting with taking the enzyme diamine oxidase which you can buy as Histame. Also, I cut out all histamine foods for 2 months and then started with the seafood challenge. I couldn't do the whole 30 days, but keeping the seafood to super fresh and no canned stuff helped a lot. Fish is easier on me than shellfish right now.



    I think CT is great because cold always brought relief for my hives which is another histamine condition.(Not sure how the cold uticaria that the bad o6/o3 ratios brings on is related ) Face dunks have been great for puffy eyes and sneezing in the a.m. which always comes the day after ingesting something with histamine.



    Soo....just wanted to start up a conversation with others who might have some ideas about getting past this particular hump in the road. I'm anticipating that as other areas become more optimal i.e. hormones....that this hyper immune response will settle down. Would welcome suggestions!



    On to oxalates and FODMAPs later...
     
    Martha Barger likes this.
  2. Eve

    Eve New Member

    I started GAPS last February. I had big problems with histamine for the whole year. I couldn't eat any leftovers or even broth that was freshly made. I would get a few hives, beating heart, hot flashes, etc. You probably already know this but according to GAPS as I understand it, histamine issues can be a result of an overabundance of "bad" bacteria in the gut that release histamine as a byproduct.



    I don't think I noticed any improvement in my sx during that year because I didn't start taking probiotics until Sept 2011 and I only recently realized that I was having reactions to the probiotics all along as there were traces of gluten in it. It was not until Jan of this year to the present that I have gone through several jars of my homemade sauerkraut. I've gotten a lot of die-off -- at first, sometimes moments after eating it, desperately needing a nap -- but now I have no more histamine issues. It's very nice not to have to cut and freeze all my meat after cooking it! I can't believe I can have broth now too! My improvements might also be contributed to glutathione or Myer's iv's that I've been getting once a week since May.



    Unfortunately my other food intolerances still remain...As in FODMAPS, Polyols cause me a lot of nausea, although fructose is slightly getting better (e.g., cabbage) but is still not tolerable. The next thing I am going to do is get my hormones tested because I think they are what is impeding my progress.
     
  3. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    Eve, that's really helpful to get your story...I was trying to do probiotics too, but I stopped all supplements to try and figure things out. I was taking BioKult.

    I know exactly what you mean about the instant reaction to sauerkraut. I love the stuff, but I would get a weird kind of sedative feeling, like you've just had a huge amount of alcohol mainlined into your bloodstream and then complete fatigue. Yuck.

    I'll talk to my ND about the iv myers and glutathione...it would certainly help to bypass the stomach and I'll try my BioKult again. Going back to why our guts got leaky in the first place...I think the hormone balances are key.



    Have you seen the chart on paleo-dietitian.com?--somebody posted it here awhile ago and it's a FODMAPs chart, but once you take out the foods with oxalate, histamine and salicylates there are hardly any veggies left. I'm experimenting a little these past few days and I think I'm better with some of the polyols. Fructans are still totally off limits. I'm adding lots of lettuce to my dinners just to get a bit of greenery during the summer.



    Thanks again for posting!
     
  4. BJK77

    BJK77 Gold

    I didn't notice any histamine reactions until I started GAPS. I seemed to do ok with fermented foods, but the broth (even 3-hour broth) sent me over the edge - extreme itching, massive fatigue and muscle weakness to the point I could barely walk, headaches, etc. I had to cut out the broth completely and avoid canned fish, avocados, and other high histamine foods.



    Recently I've been really struggling with a severe case of rosacea that I think is related to the histamine reactions although it also happens when I'm too warm. I find the cold baths to be so refreshing when this is going on as my face gets super red and hot and I literally feel like I'm on fire.



    I had a consult with Dr. K just a few weeks ago and he thought a lot of this was related to my low DHEA levels, so I've been increasing my supplementation lately and I *think* I'm seeing some improvement. I don't want to jinx it, but when I do have reactions now they aren't quite as bad. I'm hoping the trend continues . . . but I know I definitely still have some trigger foods that I need to be careful with, mostly leftovers right now.



    Have either of you had your DHEA levels tested?
     
  5. Eve

    Eve New Member

    Glad I could help, Seahorse. I think I have seen the Paleo Fodmap chart...I know what you mean about nothing left to eat. I've been eating pretty much the same thing everyday since January. The only local/organic veggies that I can eat and are available right now are broccoli, zucchini, and bok choy (hard to find). I can eat lettuce but can't find a safe oil for dressing.



    B, I am going to get my DHEA levels tested. I'm going to do the Salivary Hormone Panel III by zrtlabs but am going to wait til 21st day of my cycle to test as per the instructions just in case. So I won't get results until August. I don't really have problems with sleep unless I've reacted to a food that day...but my DHEA is probably still wonky based on my severe leaky gut.
     
  6. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    Ditto on the DHEA testing....I had a test that was lost this month en route to the Neuroscience lab. So I'm doing another one this week.

    That's encouraging about the rosacea and the DHEA!



    I had so much bokchoy in May and June I don't even want to look at it now. I just skipped veggies altogether for awhile and now I'm shredding lettuce and putting lemon and a bit of olive oil on top. The way I see it, I'm staying at the meat/fat/as much fish as I can tolerate stage until my gut heals enough to proceed. Hoping that some lifestyle changes will also contribute to a hormone revival.
     
  7. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    I have trouble with fermented foods as well. I was reading that folks with cysteine rich blood should avoid sulfur. I remember something significant about fermented foods in the same article. Your troubles remind me, and I dumped the MSM and I'm adding it back maybe.... the NAC may make for cysteine rich blood. Its the glutathione precursor. I quit taking that for a few days also. Its another chicken or egg problem. The cysteine is so important for chelating.
     
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator


    Regarding my bolding your post.........red todays post when I talk about dolphins and us..........see any similarities? Just making sure you get it loud and clear.
     
  9. thelowhistaminechef

    thelowhistaminechef New Member

    Hi there, I've been following your forum for a while now...I just had to post. I was diagnosed with histaminosis (histamine intolerance) two years ago - I have many of the symptoms a lot of people here are suffering from. It might be worthwhile researching it...I have low diamine oxidase and high histamine and two allergies that drive my overall levels higher. Re a few people saying that removing foods from their diet helped in the short term but then it seemed to catch up with them - yes, it can take a few weeks for the histamine level to creep back up. The bucket analogy: your body requires histamine for proper central nervous system function and digestive processes - so there's always some histamine in the bucket. Add in an undiagnosed allergy, and it gets a bit fuller. Add in hay fever season and a little pet dander...then eat pretty much anything with a little bit of histamine and the bucket spills over.



    I love this site! Lots of great info...
     
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I just have to say for completeness........do not assume a histamine reaction to food means elimination is in play.......it could be another issue. Just did a consult today that had this very issue. This is why education consults can be enlightening at times
     
    rlee314 and SCRN2007 like this.
  11. Martha Barger

    Martha Barger New Member

    Hey, I just found this thread because I posted a version of this on a Histamine Intolerance Group
    I belong to on Facebook....

    'Try getting more sunlight (sunrises and sunset daily too) and avoid as much artificial lighting (blue light like the LED and florescent lighting --- that has been helping me.... Teaching from Dr. Jack Kruse and learning from his OPTIMAL HEALTH FORUM. Goggle 'Histamine Jack Kruse' and related threads will come up that might help.

    Big histamine trigger for me is spinach so high-oxalate might overflow my 'histamine' bucket. I've lowered high oxalate foods and I avoid all spinach. I do pretty well except in the spring and fall when there are seasonal allergies a histamine factor for me.

    Hope this helps... Oh yes... one other help, metabolic counselor with Metabolic Healing put me onto a nasal spray called...
    'OMG Nasal Spray'. The bottle says 'Addresses Nasal Toximation (Marcons maybe?)'. Product is by Dr. Fitt aka Roby Mitchell MD. I hate nose sprays and it was pretty expensive but I really trust the counselor (IMHO he's the best in the industry.) who also happens to personally have histamine issues so I purchased and love the spray... lasts a long time and gentle enough for me. The spray may well be a major help for me since I've been symptom free for same time I've been using. I don't have to use often maybe 3 times a month.
    I do hope this helps.... we have to learn to be our own advocates for our health. No one knows our own bodies as we do and no one cares as much as we and our fellow sufferers do.'

    Imagine that... sunlight... helping any and everything!

    DOA related gene might be a factor for individuals... but metabolic counselor did not believe a genetic factor for me....

    BTW, I too have issues with bone broth, coconut oil and fish if it is not super fresh... and meat leftovers if not eaten the next day. My worst symptoms are (were) flushing rashes, drainage and sore throats.... but like I said I've been greatly helped I believe by the nasal spray, not overdoing oxalates, being careful to eat very fresh food, local season food and getting sunlight.
    Yeah, Sunlight what a gift. Thank you Dr. Jack Kruse for helping me see it.




     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019

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