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High keytones on organic acids test and high fumaric and Malic acid metabolites

Discussion in 'Mitochondrial Rx' started by motivatedhealthseeker, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. I have been dealing with low cortisol for a few years now so I finally decided to do the Great Plains OAT test. I have been struggling with low cholesterol (159) and low downstreams hormones like pregneolone and so forth.I eat a high protein ( salmon) and high good fat diet. I don't ever have sugar cravings so I was surprised to see some yeast markers ( tartaric acid 5.9 with reference range being <4.5 and arabinose 34 with ref range being <29) and a lot of bacterial markers.

    2 hydroxyphenylacetic was 1.1 with reference range being .06-.66.
    4 Hydroxybenzoic was 2.2 with ref range being <1.3
    5 hydroxyhippuric was 19 with reference range being .79-17
    DHPPA (beneficial bacteria was good..right at mean
    hippuric acid was also fine at 380 ref range being <613

    Clostridia markers:

    4 hydroxyphenylacetic was high at 24 with ref range being <19
    All other markers actually very low including HPHPA, 4-cresol, and 3 indoleacetic

    So now what really blew me away was the high keytones.
    3 Hydroxybutyric was 470 with ref range being 3.1
    Acetoacetic 814 with ref range being <10
    4 hydroxybutyric 8 with ref range <4.8
    Adipic also high at 44 ref range .04-3.8
    Suberic 16 with ref range .18-2.2
    sebacic 4.2 ref range <.24
    So all metabolites are high under the keytone and fatty acid oxidation except ethylamalonic and methylsuccinic
    Mitochondrial markers are high as well.
    Fumaric 2 ref range being <.94
    Malic high at 2.2 with reg range being .06-1.8

    dopamine is actually high with HVA being 4.3 ref range (.8 to 3.6)
    VMA low at 1.1 (.46 to 3.7)
    So this probably because bacteria are messing with the dopamine B hydroxylase enzyme and dopamine is not broken down.
    Ok so B2 was low and so was b6. methymalonic acid also high at 8 ref range being <2.3

    So I am trying to understand where the glich is in the system. Can yeast and bacteria cause such havoc on mitochondria. Dr Kruse mentioned eye, skin, gut , and lung surface is what needs to be protected to keep mitochondria healthy.
    So is it just a matter of adding in carnitine, more coq10, and some magnesium or is something majorly awry here? I did the micronutrient test last year and carnitine was sufficient , magnesium was great, coq 10 was at the top tip of chart. Choline was low so I have added in choline bitartrate for a year now. B2 was low so been taking 50 mg of that as well. All this time I was wondering whyyyyy I am low though so possibly enterobacter species of bacteria eating up b2. Had a stool test in 2015 which showed nothing else except excessive enterobacter. Did some herbs but I guess it wasnt eradicated fully.
    So is the glich in the digestion and assimilation of fatty acids possibly due to low bile as bacteria are deconjugating bile and not enough carnitine to produce acetyl coA? Or is it in krebs cycle where some vitamin deficiency like perhaps B3 is allowing malic and fumaric acid to back up? Appears to be both. I have added in some ox bile to aid with digestion of fats but again why cant I digest fats? All of this goes back to bacteria?
    Now if looking at quantum aspect of things...red light to increase cytochrome oxidase C enzyme. Will this help? I do block blue light as much as I can but will get even more strict with it. Seems to be complex 2 where FAD enters is where the issues lie?!
    My main concern is the excessive keytones and what this actually means and how to correct?
    Anyone did an OAT test or had any issues with fatty acid metabolism?
    JanSz likes this.
  2. sam112233

    sam112233 New Member

    I don't really trust those private labs- try do an OAT through a hospital lab with the doctor. If the high ketones were real it means there is a problem using carbohydrates for energy, and the body is converting fat to ketones instead to use them for energy.

    Take succinic acid. It feeds into complex 2 of the electron transport chain to make ATP. It can cure a lot of diseases. I posted info on succinic acid, and the mitochondria on a diabetes forum, and instantly got banned. Thinking succinic acid must be good for diabetes also I searched the literature on it- it is an insulin secretagogue, and as strong as glucose. It has a LOT of other positive effect on diabetes also. Maybe diabates is treatable with oral succinic acid instead of injecting insulin each day. Not sure that is relevant to you just putting it here in case someone with diabetes sees it.

    Succinic acid is also a natural anti biotic, improves gut health, and improves digestion. Other organic acids are added to pig/chicken feed for this reason. In the studies they add a lot of organic acids except succinic to the feeds though.. maybe they just don't know about it.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
    Bryn likes this.
  3. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Its use has nothing to do with glucose or insulin it is all about the hydrogen it contains..........and if it can displace the hydrogen tying up the TCA........
  4. sam112233

    sam112233 New Member

    I just read some studies on DDW then. looks goods. Now if someone can invent a machine or method that everyone can make it at home that would be a breakthrough.. And what if some evil force/people have been spiking the water supplies with deuterium heavy water... good way to make everyone sick, and generate money for the health industry.

    Even though DDW looks like it will heal a lot of disease abnormalities in organic acids are still a real phenomenon, and can be easily treated by taking the correct organic acid.
  5. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Some evil have made mistake.
    Actually DDW is widely available but it is in hiding.
    It is the cheapest water sold in stores.
    It is RO water.
    One of them have been tested. Aquafina by Pepsi, 139.5ppm of D.
    Far ahead of expensive mineral waters and much more expensive glacial, VOSS or other similar.

  6. sam112233

    sam112233 New Member

    Interesting. I will have a look for the Pepsi water at some local shops. Thanks for letting me know.

    I just watched a video on DDW by a company that makes it. They said their machine makes water pH 9- pH 9.5. There is a study showing pH above 7.4 inactivates pepsin in the stomach... so this is bad for protein digestion. pH 7 water might be the best as it is close to blood/intracellular pH, and won't interfere with protein digestion in the stomach.
  7. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    [qu ote="sam112233, post: 230912, member: 20882"]Interesting. I will have a look for the Pepsi water at some local shops. Thanks for letting me know.

    I just watched a video on DDW by a company that makes it. They said their machine makes water pH 9- pH 9.5. There is a study showing pH above 7.4 inactivates pepsin in the stomach... so this is bad for protein digestion. pH 7 water might be the best as it is close to blood/intracellular pH, and won't interfere with protein digestion in the stomach.[/quote]
    Post link to that video.

    All waters that are generally available for drinking, expensive water and inexpensive water, can be put in one category.
    Among them
    only RO water have significantly lower Deuterium content.
    Any other water in that group, when looking at their deuterium content, is not even close to RO.

    No wonder, RO water is man made water, it does not happen naturally.

    When discussing RO water
    it is easy to get misunderstand.
    Water obtained from the other side of RO membrane is not ready for consumption.
    It is immaterial what ph it have at that point with exception of quality control.
    Before water is ready for consumption there are numerous other steps,
    some of them manage minerals and ph. Potassium, sodium, magnesium.

    DDW Deuterium Depleted Water
    is a man made water.
    More like a medicine.
    I do not think it is meant as a supply of electrolytes.
    I see zero for sodium content on a Preventa 25ppm label.
    It should be drank on advice of informed person.

    When @Jack Kruse introduced us to deuterium he did that with referencing to work of László G. Boros.
    László G. Boros uses Preventa for his DDW. (And claims no knowledge of quality of other waters that claim to be DDW, but hopes that people will get informed about the idea and use it).

    Most of the therapeutic use of DDW starts with 105ppm.
    For number of reasons 105ppm is obtained by mixing
    1 part of 25ppm DDW (contains no minerals)
    2 parts of ordinary drinking water (this is also a source of minerals)
    at this stage there is likely little worry about getting short on minerals
    but as therapy progresses DDW part may increase and at certain point one should begin to monitor and optimize minerals.

    sam112233 likes this.
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Looks like the sodium part may be right
    but the label does not have
    K, Mg, Ca mentioned.

    And the plot thickens:
    A Retrospective Evaluation of the
    Effects of Deuterium Depleted Water
    Consumption on 4 Patients with Brain
    Metastases from Lung Cancer

    DDW Production
    DDW was produced from ordinary water containing the
    natural amount of D (150 ppm, equivalent to 16.8 mmol/L) using fractional distillation 20
    to decrease the D concentration in the range of 95 to 25 ppm, depending on
    the tray number of the distillation tower.
    Mineral salts were supplemented in the same way as in ordinary drink-
    ing water.

    DDW-25 contains
    3.8 mg/L of KCl,
    181.5 mg/L of MgCl2⋅6H2O, and
    262.5 mg/L of CaCl2⋅2H2O.

    DDW-25 was used to prepare drinking water with 105 ppm and 85 ppm by mixing DDW-25 with mineral water in ratios of 0.36:0.64 or 0.52:0.48, respectively.
    D concentration was determined by infrared spectroscopy with a precision of ±3ppm with a Foxboro Miran 1A CVF IR spectrophotometer
    (at a 4-μm wavelength, in a 0.2-mm CaF2 cell).

    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  9. sam112233

    sam112233 New Member

    I can't find the website that I watched the video on. It was a well made video comparing all the different types of water. I have a sonication machine/jewellery cleaner so looked in the literature to see what that does to water. It kills bacteria in it. Maybe someone can make a special type of water with electrolysis/sonication/heating lol.
  10. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    China is building a plant where they will combine H and O directly.

    sam112233 likes this.

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