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Help. Cravings beating me down.

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by MamaGrok, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. vkiernan

    vkiernan Silver

    Just wondering if this is a hormonal thing. We women are forevering changing and sometimes I get the horrendous urges too. Sometimes not and that is the weird part. You know your thyroid is messed up a little now so this might also have something to do with it if the t3 can't get into your cells. My sugar cravings came back at x-mas and hasn't left me yet. I fed it once and that is all it takes! Mabye you need more sunshine. Spring is on its way.

    Jack told me once that my brain is programmed to like sweet and I have to retrain it to like salt. So everytime I want something sweet, go for the salt. I can tell you I don't always practice this but I eat kale chips a lot now with my meals and I am starting to like salt. Sometimes even more than sugar.

    I wish I had an answer for you but unfortunetly I am the same as you. We will pull ourselves out though all in good time.
     
  2. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    Yes, we will. There's certainly no going back or giving up.

    I love salty. I already salt everything (highest quality salt) and love salty foods. I don't even really like sweet foods anymore, which is oh so frustrating. I'm pawing pawing digging for something sweet, shove it down, and don't even like it, but a desperate "need" for more.

    I think it's notable that I don't have these cravings at all until at least 2pm. I'm sure that means something.
     
  3. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    This may be stupid to suggest, but what if the cravings are not pathological. Why is everything that doesn't perfectly fit the epi-paleo template pathological? (Just questioning everything here). If you have totally sorted your eating and killed your cravings for months and months now and suddenly they rear up, maybe there is wisdom in that. I can relate in that I get what I would loosely call 'cravings' but are actually like un-fightable signals for certain food sometimes. About a month ago, it was yogurt (and sometimes, during that same period, cheese). I realise I'm not 'supposed' to be eating that but I said to my husband 'it is as if I will literally go crazy if I don't eat this food.' So I decided to just eat it. Every day for several weeks I ate yogurt and most every day I also ate sheep's/goat's cheese. I was a bit worried but I was literally miserable if I didn't. And guess what? The cravings stopped almost as suddenly as they started. I saw no bloating, no weight gain, no bad side effects at all (no I don't have labs to prove that). I am convinced I needed something - calcium? K2? - more than I was supplementing/already in my diet. I have occasionally had the same reaction to other foods, such as berries. (I've also had the reverse where a 'perfect' food - lately it's been lamb's liver -makes me sick.)

    I realise you are saying it is for anything sweet that you are feeling this craving. But, hell, that can be legit can't it? If you're not fully in fat-burning mode and you're not creating enough energy via the fat-burning pathways, maybe you need something extra? Barry talks about honey to fuel the energy he expends? Maybe you are depleted in some way. I realise this goes against the cardinal rule that we don't ever need any exogenous glucose (though I wouldn't see full fat plain yogurt in that category and find it interesting that it helps). Just thinking out loud. I suppose my bottom line is that I don't think you are pathological and I'm arguing that the symptoms may not be either.
     
  4. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    I had exactly that happen before, when I first allowed myself fat after 15 years without. I craved butter straight, and ate close to a stick a day for a month. After a month, I just didn't need it anymore, and couldn't be persuaded to have even a bite of butter straight.

    I think I clearly needed the K2.

    But that doesn't seem to be what's going on this time. It's a strong *sugar* craving, not a dairy craving. I want cupcakes. Jolly Ranchers. 52 oranges, one after another. I settled for yogurt because a) it was in the house and b) it's not sugar and c) it makes a great vehicle for raw honey.

    Same craving I've had for over a decade.

    I do believe that there is something physiological driving it. There is almost certainly something I *need* that's out there. But no matter how much I eat, it doesn't seem to go away. I can eat a quart of yogurt every day, plus a ton of candy and a ton of ice cream and a ton of granola and brussels sprouts and apples, and still I want to eat more of it, the only thing stopping me being physical pain from having eaten so much. I spent years doing just that, trying to fill myself with nourishing, nutrient-dense foods (CW "healthy", then 3 years of WAP style, then 2 years primal) and no matter how much of a wide variety of foods I ate, I couldn't fill whatever that need is. The only thing that ever worked was the BAB/LR.

    So I'm left guessing it's pathological, or a completely misplaced "need" for something not really needed.

    Regardless of cause, I can't go on eating thousand sof calories of sugary foods every afternoon and night forever, so I gotta figure something out!
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  5. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    Ah, OK, I can hear the difference in what I've experienced and what you're dealing with now. I still argue that you are not pathological however.
     
  6. I actualy lowered my T3 from 75mcg/day to 52mcg after starting the d-ribose. I do need to test my thyroid again to check these levels but I really don't feel any more fatigue after lowering the dose. As far as the carnitine goes, I take one in the morning and one at night and it's only been a week but not feeling anything from that yet, good or bad. I am waiting for something to happen but the carnitine is the one mito supp that I haven't felt any changes from it.
     
  7. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    This makes me wonder if this isn't bacteria driven. IDK. I'm guessing here.

    I also have some questions for you - when you really started pushing epi-paleo for one of your meals - did you have any of these cravings?

    have you increased your epi-paleo based meals and decreased your grass fed meals (as a result of your most lab results that say you have tolerance problems to x, y & z?)?

    have your fats changed?

    Trying to help pull the onion back... I realize you're frustrated to pieces after all the success you've had.
     
  8. RiverNeighbor

    RiverNeighbor New Member

    I have cravings pop up now and again. After much reflection I believe that for me the cravings come these days when I'm not in "even keel" mode.... i.e., I have an increased level of stress. Yes, sometimes even good stress. Sometimes it'll happen and I won't think that I have any stress and I'll realize that we've been couped up inside several days because it's rainy, or that it really did stress me out when the kids were fighting in the car and I was trying to find my way around 8 lanes of California rush hour traffic, or that I'm really excited about going on a trip. I guess maybe it's not even that one of those things might happen... it's more like if the stress/calm ratio gets skewed more toward stress then I start to experience more cravings. I think body-mind portion of wellbeing can be a big part of cravings.
     
  9. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    The cravings started to peek out in June, after 6mo of none at all.

    I added seafood in September - a lot of it. I decreased beef/pork/lamb/goat proportionately to make room, but found that I couldn't have less than 4oz of red meat in the morning or cravings would be out of control.

    The cravings have continued to increase. I actually had a few binges in November. I have avoided them narrowly through December, entirely in January, and had trouble again the last few days.

    Seafood has been constant since about October, when I found th ebalance that kept cravings from goign bananas.

    I haven't done anything about the lab results, since I still don't know how to approach limiting things that may result in increasing other things that could very well also be problems (like lamb, goat, salmon, oysters, cod, etc.).


    I totally appreciate all the help brainstorming here! Lord knows my brain ain't exactly up to par these days!
     
  10. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    My stress is way up, but not objectively. The stressors in my life are not all that high, certainly lower than they've been at other times in the past ten years.

    But I can't handle much at all. I'm finding myself curling up in a ball on the couch and telling the kids in low tones what to do - they're cleaning the house, making a lot of the food, and coming one at a time for school. I tell them I just can't yell to call them or instruct or chastise them anymore; it gives me a headache. This has also come in the last few weeks, and precedes the latest increase of cravings.

    I don't get a sense that stress is driving the cravings, though. I get a sense that whatever is making me less able to handle stress is also making me crave.

    Adrenals? But at the same time, taking my NDT two hours before I wake is doing amazing things for my morning. I no longer wake with a massive headache, feeling like unslept death, after 9hrs of solid sleep.

    It's worth repeating that I added this circadian T3 protocol about 5 weeks ago, and started iodine 2.5 weeks ago.

    Sigh. Stress used to roll off me like water off a duck's back. I did my whole EE major in 1.5 years, then in three months graduated, got married, started my first job, bought a house, & got pregnant - and felt no stress at all. Easy peasy. Wish I could have those days back. I do not like feeling so weak & vulnerable to what goes on around me.
     
  11. Lyndra

    Lyndra Gold

    Just thinking out loud here - cravings got worse as the length of daylight shortened. Have you looked at D3 levels? Do you supplement?
     
  12. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    Lots and lots of D3 - 4,000IU all summer plus sun; 8,000IU all winter. My D3 had dropped from last Mar to last Sept. Strange that it dropped over the summer, but I've been very vigilant about taking it daily ever since.
     
  13. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    Have you ever looked into Dan Kalish's work? Neurotransmitter issues can certainly drive cravings and while diet could help in this realm it may not be sufficient.
     
  14. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    MamaGrok...sorry if you have already answered this...if you weren't eating any dairy and then started eating a little perhaps this issue is from the opiate production...check out the thread that was directed towards me, but I think JK meant it for you.
     
  15. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Really good point!! I feel like this happens for me sometimes too. I will use dates as an example. Something about dates I can get a craving for from time to time and I can eat quite a lot. Once I finish a huge serving though, I don't feel for it again. Example, last week I had extra craving for dates, so I ate a lot. But the next day I was like 'ugh...I couldn't eat another date'.

    Perhaps MamaG you are more worried about the 'downslide' and bad consequences of such cravings, like bloat and weight gain. I have to admit that I am stupidly vain (still 27 you know) and honestly if I didn't have to 'worry' about getting fat and disgusting then I would ENJOY life wayyyy more (LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD). It is a shitty motivator :-( and the only thing that helps support and is more sustaining is when I think of the back end of my life and wish for disease free in my old age. But for my vain self at this point in time...yes I care too much how I look. I DO know that this is not very sustaining of an attitude to have so I am lucky that I can at least see my back end of life too. But yes...I hate having to live what I feel is a 'restrictive' life (and sometimes STILL have 'problems' which makes it even more painful), but I try to convince myself that when I'm 90 and disease free, IT WILL HAVE ALL BEEN WORTH IT!

    So again it's how to play that fine line between balance for health and sanity right? Good luck MamaG and thanks Kiwi for your good point.
     
  16. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    I should have noted above that the "curl up in a corner and avoid stress" mode is almost exclusively between 1:30 & 3:30pm. I'm sure that means something, probably adrenal, since the 24hr cortisol I had (admittedly, over a year ago) showed decent cortisol all day except plummeting to *below* the range at 1pm. Why, though? I've never seen anyone address that particular bizarre pattern.

    Not familiar with him. I've still got Dr. Dzugan & Dr. Kharrazian on my list to look up, too, shoot...

    LOL. I got the cravings first, and THEN and only then ate dairy b/c it was the only thing in my house that worked as a tasty conduit for honey. :)

    The dairy always has secondary effects, though, like bloating, fatigue, etc., although interestingly, I haven't seen much of those in the way they normally happen when I eat dairy.

    Do you think JK saw my post above? LOL.

    yes, I can certainly imagine how this could happen. It has never happened for me, though, with anything sweet. I simply cannot get tired of them. I once discovered dried dates at my local HFS and ate massive quantities of them every week for two years straight. (As just one example.)

    At 36 and with 5 children, I'm still vain, but far more worried about. I do worry about bloating, b/c of what more dire gut issues it may indicate, but for the most part have decided not to make my food choices based on it, b/c EVERYTHING but meat & fat (and even those, if I don't take enough ox bile) causes me to bloat. I intend to add back well-cooked greens, some berries, & occasional sweet potatoes come spring.

    Honestly, I've spent enough years believing that I could just willpower my way to a moderate consumption of fruit/starches/FODMAPs/etc. that I know how that works in my body. It doesn't. It leaves me miserable, grumpy, fatigued, bloated beyond imagination, & non-stop craving.

    And yes on your last point!
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  17. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Oooo it makes me so happy to see that you will add in some sweet potatoes!! Don't ask why, but it does. It's not that sweet potatoes are be all and end all and honestly who needs them EVERY SINGLE NIGHT?! But I am glad to see that you will include a bit more of variety.

    Always an experiment too I guess. I wonder if next winter you will resume the same keto protocol (based on good evolutionary science I add) or if you will experiment something different (unless you already did and you prefer winter keto).

    Ok, sorry about the actual cravings for sweet things lasting for 2 years. I did not know it was like that. As I said if I get a craving it doesn't really last more than a day or two. Also if I get a craving for sweet things it's not normally cookies or pastries, it's more like 'candies' that are pure glucose/fructose or something like that. You know the gin gins candies? And even the dates example, I think that is more 'sugar' than say, a cookie or pastry. I hope that doesn't mean adrenal problems. (Which I DID have in 2011) but I was thinking I have resolved (most) of it. (Don't know w/o testing though). *I didn't need testing though in 2011 to know I had a huge crash and PTSD LOL It was pretty obvious. lol
     
  18. Eve

    Eve New Member

    I'm not sure if this will help but wanted to add my expereince...
    For the past several months, I was having insatiable hunger and cravings. I could eat 1.5 lbs of salmon, feel phyically very full in my stomach, but I still wanted to binge on sweets etc. I was putting off having my thyroid retested and finally did so...To make a long story short, I had gone "hyper", although my ft4 looked normal. I am speculating my ft3 was on the high end, but the lab didn't run it that time. I think the feeling hyper was due to adrenal problems, after reading the STTM site. I am speculating there was some "pooling" going on.

    During the previous months, I kept upping my NDT, because I felt hypo and didn't clue in on the hyper symptoms (i.e., insatiable hunger, having difficulty falling asleep -- feeling wired but tired). So, I slowly reduced my dose from 3 grains to 2 grains. The insatiable hunger went away for the most part. And then on Sunday I started the T3CM method, and now the hunger/cravings have gone away for the most part. I still have some cravings, but I attribute this to having a terrible leaky gut and having to eat only fish everyday.

    I read that you already are doing the T3CM method, but maybe you are on too much NDT and having some temporary pooling going on?
     
  19. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    UNDOUBTEDLY I have pooling. My T4 is out the top of the range and FT3 is WAY out the top (6 something). RT3 is 450ish. Ridiculous. I had used the STTM protocol to increase my NDT and felt better with every dose, *never* hyper, but while the T3 is clearly benefiting me, I'm still collecting RT3 like it's stamps.

    Certainly your experiencing is interesting here - I don't have insatiable hunger; it's fine in the morning through to mid-afternoon. I have no trouble falling asleep; that's better than it's been since I started primal (before that, interestingly, I used to fall asleep the moment my head hit the pillow). I have no jitteriness, BP & pulse are still very low, temp is finally 98.6 so yay there, no weight loss (had 3lb one week last month and nothing but gain ever since).

    IDK. Could it be hyper signs? It sucks to be hyper and have none of the benefits. :)

    I'm scared to death of reducing my dose anymore. I don't want to lose what I've gained (outside of the 2hr dump inthe afternoon, I'm doing about 7/10, up from 3/10 this tim elast year).
     
  20. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    To me this sounds exactly what my friend was telling me about. Which would mean that staying at the higher dose where you don't feel hypo and adding in milk thistle and choline should keep you with good energy but clear the RT3.

    I wonder if increasing RT3 can somehow drive cravings?

    Re: Kalish, he's a neurotransmitter guy. He has a great and easy to understand podcast with Sean Croxton. It is possible that you have a dopamine issue which could be helped with his protocol. On the podcast he gives safe DIY doses on how to use l-tyrosine and 5HTP in case you're interested.
     

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