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hashi's and hives

Discussion in 'Adrenal Rx and Leaky Gut Rx' started by MartiD, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. MartiD

    MartiD New Member

    Ive been having several bouts with hives for last 7 months and after being tested by a Allergist found out I'm allergic to most things I breathe. I had issues and shots as a kids but never really as an adult until my out breaks in January. I've been starting injections but had another outbreak on Saturday. I'm attributing it to a night of cuddling with my very freaked out dog on the 4th...he hates fireworks. He is unfortunately my highest allergy! My last outbreak was in February when I had feather pillows at a hotel (second highest allergy)! Anyway, I'm taking Allergra and Zantac per my Dr orders and it helping some with rash but minimal. I've been reading about hives and came across a large amount of people who have hives from their Hashis. Any one with Hashis have this issue? I don't think I have hashis as I have none of symptoms but I am trying to get in with a new Dr and get a full blood work up.
    Martha Ray likes this.
  2. colleencoble

    colleencoble New Member

    I used to. I was allergic to everything and had a very bad candida infection. I also found a naturopath MD who did a acupressure technique called NAET (www.naet.com) that used acupuncture. She cleared out all of them. Now there is an easier way with a laser though. I had hives at least once a week. I haven't had them now in about 10 years, I think.
    Martha Ray likes this.
  3. MartiD

    MartiD New Member

    You did this for airborne allergies or for food allergies? I can't image how you would laser dust mites, mold, cedar tree, dog dander, etc. All of my food allergies came back negative.
    Martha Ray likes this.
  4. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    MartiD....check out the thread on Histamine... I only test "allergic" to sugar, asparagus, almonds and beans....but I have serious histamine reactions to lots of foods...there are lots of pathways to getting hives...temperature, contact allergies, emotions, airborne allergies etc. Do you find CT helps? I use to go out in the middle of winter with hardly any clothes to chill my skin when I had chronic hives. I also got a case that lasted six weeks before I realized my antidepressant was the culprit (effexor....lots of people have the same reaction after months of being on it) I read a lot about Hashis and thyroid at the time because it seems that, as you said, chronic hives and thyroid issues can go together. In my case getting all my hormones optimal will help change my immune responses...could this part of your healing process too?
    Martha Ray likes this.
  5. finnite@dccnet.com

    finnite@dccnet.com New Member

    Marti I believe you let a glass of water sit out overnight to collect the allergens and laser through that. Colleen has more info at hcginfo in her section

    Seahorse has good points too, perhaps a 2 pronged approach?
    Martha Ray likes this.
  6. MartiD

    MartiD New Member

    SeaHorse, I did see that thread and will re-read it. My first outbreak was in January 2012 after I had lost about 50 lbs, been paleo since October and in much better health than I had been for 10 years! I originally thought it was epson salt baths that caused the outbreak but then ruled that out with my second out break 6 weeks later. After the testing in March I realize the 2nd outbreak was the feather pillows at the hotel the weekend of my outbreak. My Allergist said that since I had issues a a kid that it has resurfaced due to my age and it is very common. I do CT most every day although it isn't deep CT...water is pretty warm here in Mid-Missouri but at least once a week I try to get the water down to 55 degrees with lots of ice. I do spot CT my stomach most every day. I thought the CT bath I took Saturday morning might have been the cause but remembered that my arms were showing an outbreak that morning already. I really think it was a delayed reaction to the dog from Wednesday night but I may never really know for sure.

    Hopefully the full blood panel (if I can ever get into my Dr.) will reveal if it is something else.
    Martha Ray likes this.
  7. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray New Member

    Well I'm relating to your post but your request was from 2011 did not read the whole thread yet to find help and find out what became of your story.

    I am suffering with extremely dry skin Hives upper arms and now eczema on face looking for answers...I made a post in the beginner section but no one has noticed it yet and well I'm not very patient... so I found your Hives post. I do not want to take drugs Ketoconazole Cream 2% or Zantac as I hate pharmaceuticals and OTC drugs. I am taking 1 pharmaceutical NP thyroid for hypothyroidism.. not believe to caused be Hashimoto's but maybe caused by pool chemicals fluoride, chlorine and bromide harming my thyroid.

    Here is what I posted.
    Upper arm rashes (hives like) began onset Dec 2019 when HVac heat came on and they have gotten progressively worst since. I have experienced occasional twinges of upper arm discomfort in the past when exposed to 'foam' throw pillows while traveling and a few times out of the blue perhaps from eating out...I've thought it was a signal for some toxin exposure. I have mild MCS and EMF sensitivity as well as food sensitivities to gluten, nightshades, MSG, Oxalate and high histamine foods...Also sensitive to nickel...(had to stop wearing earrings about 14 years ago) so I question a lot of things.

    We replaced our HVac and duct work went from fiberboard to metal duck work...rashes have only been worse. I asked the installer to please wipe down the metal with rubbing alcohol before installing...I do not believe they did that as when I asked they said it would be fine since all metal was covered over...I should have pressed harder as I have no idea how much nickel might be the duck work. I has been 4 months getting worse was as weather has gotten colder and the system runs more. Vents are also is putting out more dust than I think they should. We have two Austin Air units I run to try and keep particles down.
    I am the worst at night when I lay down. Bed is dunlop-latex have had 10+ years. Took all bedding mostly organic cottons and down pillows to commercial washers and washed them and dried them multiple times and I replaced any old foam ones with perma-loft down alternative –that I know bothered me topically. Replaced a lot of older bed sheets and linens as well.

    I have a very long list of things I've questioned and a very long list of things I'm trying...some are a natural antihistamine recipe, coptis tincture, black seed oil, oregano oil, ..... salt and baking soda baths and drinking 1 tsp charcoal powder in water helps when I'm at my worst.

    DO doctor suggested:
    -GI Revive by Designs for Health
    https://shop.designsforhealth.com/gi-revive-powder?quantity=1&custcol_dfh_size=30 for gut lining and skin.
    -Rubbing my arms regularly with coconut oil with drops of essential oil of either lavender or oregano.
    He suspects a 'bug' … parasites.

    So I wonder about...
    Parasites? HVac, w/ metal duct work? EMF? Oxalate dumping?
    Food ? -may need to do an elimination diet-..I mostly eat seafood and other meats, leafy greens and non- starchy veggies. But I have had too many food indiscretions in regard to my sensitivities pushing the envelope this past year at least more so than preceding decade. Hoping to get strict and stay there. I Intermittent fast daily 18/6 for over 4 years now and do 3 day water fasts 2 or 3 times a year.

    I suspect any and all of the boat load of supplements I take-- working on a list of current ones. I have done a ton of looking at and learning and I have experienced a lot of them. I have a 57 page Word document 11-point font, single line spacing of what I've taken over the past 12 years after cancer. Some stuff for upper right quadrant pain, possible candida, lower right quadrant pain, other rashes for 5+ years (after seeing many derma and MD’s I finally Dx myself with Intertrigo). One spot cleared completely and one spot controlled w/ rotations of B-6 & keeping dry), blood clot, ulcer, hypothyroidism, inflammation, multiple severe sore throats, joint and musculoskeletal pain and multiple other strange side effects and sensations again long list of those.
    I also hate fillers in supplements but fall for the propaganda and 'hope' in a bottle mentality. The illness is that I keep buying and trying them. There needs to be some experts who help people evaluate what supplements they take to see if they are at all needful. I took Biotin but upped it and added ALA due to Dec 2020 Spectracell Micronutrient test showing low in those—‘me thinks’ a possible misnomer to think that pills will help.

    I suspect my pharmaceutical drug and fillers as well. I take only NP thyroid brand desiccated thyroid now. Had to change brands during time of rashes worsening.
    I hate pharmaceuticals-one conventional MD prescribed Ketoconazole Cream 2% last month for my arm rashes ...but while I filled it I have not been able to take it, first due to hating drugs and secondly because I also found it has a black box warning.

    Lastly I have one crown that might have decay under it set to see new biological dentist in March.

    I have not had back to back pain free weeks since 2009 cancer and cancer treatments of cut, poison and burn. I feel I have reasonable internal health...no colds or flu for the past 7 years. Digestion is good and elimination and sleep are fair.

    I am thankful for the suffering I have had because it keeps me seeking recovery and optimal health.

    Anyone with clues to upper arm rashes?
  8. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    @Martha Ray

    "I have mild MCS and EMF sensitivity as well as food sensitivities to gluten, nightshades, MSG, Oxalate and high histamine foods"

    "I suspect any and all of the boat load of supplements I take-- working on a list of current ones. I have done a ton of looking at and learning and I have experienced a lot of them."

    Eczema and rashes can be because of disregulation of the immune system, and that can happen from long-term use of small amounts of plant medicines in supplements that are marketed sometimes nowadays as being something good to take regularly as a preventative even though the plant would've traditionally in herbal medicine have been recommended to be used as a shorter-term thing and with a specific kind of preparation method to fit the reason for using that plant, because with longer use and/or a preparation method that changes the chemical composition to something that doesn't fit as well for the condition then the chemical effects can (more or less gradually depending which chemicals from which plant and preparation method) impair, disregulate the immune system. That could increase sensitivities to other chemicals, whether in plants or in modern synthetic chemical products.

    So what supplements do you use (including topically)?
  9. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray New Member

    Give me some time to get them all listed...
    Up too late tonight getting ready for company tomorrow
    a few of them
    -CoQ10 & BioPQQ with Shilajit Global Healing Center
    -Enzymes Nzimes- Enzymes Inc. Genuine Nzimes Dr. Howell’s Original Formula with every meal and Ox Bile NutriCology with meals Ox Bile with very heavy fat and meat meals

    -Zen Mind NutriCology occasionally at night
    -Curamin Extra Strength by Terry Naturally

    -Multiple, Vit C, D, B Comples, Omega's,Vegetarian Tryptophan
    and about 10 other bottles from Food Research I don't take these daily

    Local DO suggested these very recent additions
    -Lithium 1mg Pure Encapsulation just began last week
    -GI Revive Designs for Health just began last week
    -Antronex by Standard Process

    -Magnesium L-Threonate Dr. Mercola take daily 3 caps with each of my two daily meals Breakfast at 11 and dinner between 5 and 6
    -Cod Liver Oil Carlson occasionally with dinner
    -Quercetin Pure Encapsulation

    Began ALA and Biotin as tested low on Spectracell micronutrient testing at the end of Dec 2020
    -Alpha Lipoic Sustain with Biotin by Jarrow time released
    -Biotin 5,000 mcg Healthy Origins

    - Nettle Powder
    -Moranga Powder Mercola

    I think I need supplement rehabilitation. While I do not take many regualrly some for only short trys.... I still take a lot of different things over time. And I keep buying new ones.

    Beginning to think of them in the same way as pharmaceutical drugs. I only take one pharmaceutical, decicated thyroid (porcine) but the hives began getting bad about the time I began taking a new brand so think I need to consider rehab from that drug as well.

    The newer brand I've been using this last year is
    Food Research https://www.buyfoodresearch.com/ similar to Standard Process http://www.standardprocess.com/ in some ways.
  10. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    The general approach for supplement rehab could be:

    -- To use less of the vitamin or mineral supplements, get those nutrients in an animal food so it's a form that'll be most useable and you're not getting fillers in supplements or extra chemicals in plants that would have the nutrient. Exceptions could be fruit for vitamin C (and rose hips tea is good for vitamin C) and seaweed for iodine.

    -- Instead of the supplements that have a mixture of herbal ingredients that are extracted and sometimes standardized (GI Revive Designs for Health, Terry Naturally Curamin, maybe others you didn't say yet) and so have proportions of chemicals that affect the immune system differently than the proportions from another preparation method would, maybe using a different preparation method with some of the ingredients.

    With the Curamin, it has frankincense and turmeric extracts and turmeric essential oil; you could try inhaling and/or putting on topically frankincense and turmeric essential oils so it's not affecting the immune system the same way because of not being digested and it might still do the pain relief. (Or maybe you don't use that one often, but still the example of a different preparation than standardized extracts mixed with fillers.)

    And the GI Revive -- those herbal ingredients (other than okra) are usually made into a tea because the herbal chemicals being mixed with more volume of liquid than just stomach juice (and the temperature of the tea too) changes the digestive effect; and even though it's small amounts of each, digesting them all together and as powder instead of infusion might be enough difference for your digestion and immune system when you already have chemical sensitivities. The GI Revive ingredients are like a mixture of bone broth, fruit jam, and herb powders. Each of them can help with the digestive system somehow, so on paper it could seem like adding each of them to the formula adds another benefit to the digestive system that makes the supplement better in more ways, but when they're all digested together the immune system doesn't react to it as a makes-sense-on-paper combo, it'll react to it like it's a bone broth fruit jam with herbal powder and that's a kinda weird combo. Whereas maybe drinking a tea of some of the herbal ingredients, or drinking bone broth, or eating fruit at different times would affect the immune system better.

    And then you could use the Zinc L-Carnosine (also called polaprezinc) in the GI Revive as a separate supplement, maybe with one or another thing that it would combine better with than the whole GI Revive mixture (probably bone broth because the l-carnosine and zinc are both in meat (but separately, not as the one-molecule zinc l-carnosine chelate)). "...since 2009 cancer and cancer treatments of cut, poison and burn." The Zinc L-Carnosine is probably a good recommendation by the DO.
    "Clinical studies have also shown its efficacy for oral mucositis, esophagitis, proctitis, taste alteration and dermatitis during and after radiotherapy... Per preclinical data, zinc L-carnosine is superior to zinc sulfide for mucositis.[10]" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_L-carnosine)
    "Mucositis is the painful inflammation and ulceration of the mucous membranes lining the digestive tract, usually as an adverse effect of chemotherapy and radiotherapy treatment for cancer." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucositis)

    And back to the idea of making a tea with herbal ingredients instead of digesting it as a powder, maybe the moringa and nettle would digest better that way. I mean those probably aren't a problem because it's such small amounts of something that can be eaten as food, but generally with an herb that can be eaten it'll still digest better to cook it or make a tea with it instead of powder in a capsule washed down with water.


    About Alpha Lipoic Acid...

    "I took Biotin but upped it and added ALA due to Dec 2020 Spectracell Micronutrient test showing low in those—‘me thinks’ a possible misnomer to think that pills will help."
    ‘me thinks’ :)

    The Jarrow ALA + Biotin has 300 mg ALA. ALA is a chelator of metals, but doesn't hold onto the metal more than about a few hours; so it can cause metals to get moved around, become unbound from the ALA, and the metals need to be moved out of the blood and put somewhere. That can cause immune system reactions. People use ALA as a metal chelator by dosing it regularly around the clock to reduce symptoms from the metals redistributing from the blood after becoming unbound from the ALA.

    [Under the "DR ANDY CUTLER’S ORAL CHELATION PROTOCOL" heading then the "ALA" heading]
    "Start ALA at low doses of 12.5mg to ensure few or no adverse effects, and add it after many rounds of DMSA alone. ALA can increase side effects in a mercury toxic person and you may need to reduce the dose to 6.25mg if that is the case. It is important not to rush this process. Although the goal is to eventually get to higher doses as stated in AI (100-200mg ALA per dose), that is very high dose and can cause bad or intolerable side effects in some, so work up SLOWLY. It can take some people years to get to this point. Starting low and working up is the safest way to proceed to avoid exacerbating symptoms. The higher dosage seems to make a more dramatic difference ultimately, but it takes a long time to get there safely."

    (Related to the Andy Culter chelation methods in general -- there's a better chelator than ALA now, that was invented recently, that has a much longer half-life and so's safer, called NBMI or OSR or Emeramide.
    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/depression-and-nnemf.21987/#post-293328 )

    So that 300 mg of ALA is a lot in context of it being a chelator, although they're also talking about that being a lot for someone who has enough mercury for it to interact much with. But it's still a lot compared to there being much smaller "doses" of lipoic acid in foods that have relatively a lot of it. I made a post on the Andy Cutler Forums asking about lipoic acid from food instead of supplementing ALA, and that has some info about amounts of it in food and differences of the food form from supplemented ALA; maybe read just the first eight paragraphs:


    So instead of supplementing amounts of ALA that can cause chelation immune reactions, you could probably get enough lipoic acid from meat and eggs to more gently raise the level from the test result.
    (And I saw in another thread you asked if local eggs are good to eat year-round; yeah they are.)


    "I only take one pharmaceutical, decicated thyroid (porcine) but the hives began getting bad about the time I began taking a new brand so think I need to consider rehab from that drug as well."

    This is a desiccated thyroid that's popular on the Ray Peat Forum:



    Also, I just saw this:


    That one's 45 g for $55

    compared to 5 g for $30 from LifeGivingStore's

    Maybe there's a difference even though for the ingredients it just says "beef thyroid". In that Ray Peat Forum thread it says there's more moisture; that's probably not enough to be much of the weight difference though.

    Another glandular that might be helpful to use, to help regulate your immune system, is beef thymus gland. This one's a much better price than most glandular supplement companies:
    That business also has beef adrenal for the same prices.
    I'm not sure with thymus how much of the dried powder would be an overdose. Thyroid can be overdosed because of the hormones in it, and thymus has hormones in it too (that affect the immune system). I was told by the owner of a glandular supplement company that the desiccated powder is usually equal to 5-6x of a fresh gland. So maybe about a teaspoon isn't too much (after increasing to that)?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  11. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray New Member

    Wow Dan2 Thank you for all the infomation! Will study this!
    Dan2 likes this.
  12. BrunoB

    BrunoB New Member

    I am from Argentina, and I would like to know which farm produces this grassfed meat.
    I tasted grassfed meat from my province and it tasted the same as the common butcher's meat. I hope I have not been ripped off, I will read everything later, thank you.

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