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Getting back to a normal weight from the other end of the scale

Discussion in 'My Optimal Journal' started by Hemming, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    As opposed to many other who come here I have the problem that I need to gain weight - not lose it. I've already told some of my story in this thread http://jackkruse.com/forum/showthread.php?7308-How-to-recover-from-anorexia (I really appreciate all the replies I got) but figured I wanted to make it a bit more formal and with ongoing updates. I really hope that a lot of the people here will take part in my journey with comments, questions etc.

    I'm a 26y old male, 5'9''. My story is that I developed anorexia athletica after I was suddenly done studying, had the perfect job but didn't know what to do with my life outside of that as I had no clear goal(s) which I was use to (as in get and education and get a job). Following that I developed an eating disorder which took me to a weight of 108lbs at the lowest, I'm currently around 113.5-114.5lbs. I've been feeling miserable both physically and mentally for around 1y now but after I discovered Jack's blog and resets my mood has definitely increased. For the last year I've followed a paleo diet and for the last eight months, more or less a ketogenic diet. I've been through all of the physical and mental symptoms of anorexia which I can elaborate on if anyone is interested.

    I wanted to start this journal as I will go on medical leave from my job tomorrow to get time to relax and get myself back in shape. It's amazing how much the reset protocols have helped me already but there is still a long way to go, despite my weight being where it is I still find it very difficult to convince myself that I should gain although I don't want to lose weight either.
    The thing that has surprised me the most is how effective CT has been in improving my mood. I take a cold shower in the morning before breakfast and another one before leaving work or going to bed. Additionally, I take a swim in the ocean 2-3 times per week for 15-20min - that is my way of getting high.

    My plan for the next couple of months is to 'get back to mother nature' by continuing with the protocols and especially ocean swims since summer is on and I live close to the ocean. I'm also seeing a specialist clinic with a doctor, psychologist, dietitian etc., but honestly, I don't understand their methods and especially don't believe in their dietary guidelines.
     
  2. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Honestly - I think you should be swimming in the ocean every single day and walking on the rocks and lots and lots of sun.
    Dr. Kruse has said somewhere here .....if you live near the ocean and you are not in it every single day ....you are a damn fool!! This is the perfect opportunity for you to spend everyday at the ocean with as little clothing on as possible.

    What about fishing? what about camping? you need to enjoy every single second of this spectacular opportunity you have.
    Wake up early - get the sun on you - have your BAB...... and head to the ocean.

    Do you know anything about Movnat? google it and have a read. Erwan is an amazing young man who is tuned into nature 100%.

    Cold showers are only okay if you can't do full immersion - a bathtub full of ice would be so great for you. Do you have a hot tub outside? Dr. K. uses his hot tub as a cold tub ....just add ice and stir .... no clothing allowed! [you don't want tan lines! and you need the sun on every single inch of your body]

    All of your health problems didn't just happen - they were along time in the making .... and so it is going to take awhile to get better ....just baby steps and enjoy the ride :)

    Are you reading all JK's blogs? You will discover that anorexia and obesity are on the same spectrum - just at opposite ends. Have you listened to the webinars? and don't forget when you read a blog - you really need to read the comments as well - they are often just as important and sometimes more important.

    Good luck .... have a beautiful day at the ocean....notice the children - they are majic ....notice the sky and the tress and the flowers etc. and engage in conversations with strangers - they, very often, have a wonderful story to tell.

    Dr. Kruse has said .....if your hands are open - you will receive gifts......

    You are so young with an amazing future ahead of you - just relax and enjoy your journey to optimal health.
     
  3. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    I'll be doing more swimming in the coming months. Don't worry about the clothing - I'm as close to naked as possible without being accused of anything :)

    I've been thinking of those things too. I'll be moving back to my parents next week and as they live in a rural area with forests etc. close (in addition to the beach) I'll be using that too. I'm also considering setting up a tent in their garden and sleeping there. Besides that I have a stack of books that I want to read. I do know about MovNat and that is exactly one of the things I've been thinking about doing.

    I don't have a bath tub at my apartment. My parents do have a bath tub inside. I would prefer the swims anyway, especially now that I can feel how I've adapted to them.

    I've printed out all the blog posts and put them in different folders so I'm slowly reading them from the beginning. Right now I'm at CT 7 and I can assure you I'm reading the comments and commenting too. I really like that Jack specifically mentions anorexia too, all too many get caught with losing weight. It would be great if Jack did a blog post on anorexia because I completely agree with that anorexia and obesity is on the same spectrum - I've been telling a lot of people that already. The thing is that I need people to tell me it's okay to eat, I really like food, especially fats at the moment (whereas three months ago it was protein) yet I still like to restrict my eating which is also why I haven't gained weight. The BAB I really like but I still find myself heading to work too often thinking I could have eaten a little more. Just like some people can't stop I find it too easy to stop eating. Even though I really coconut and butter for instance I still get scared about eating too much of it even though it's probably better for me to eat more. The fun thing is that the foods I like the most are exactly those on the Epi Paleo diet but I'm still scared of eating too much of them.

    Today I did 15min (450m of swimming) in 18 degrees water, it was great!

    Thank you so much for the support! I'm hoping that this is only beginning of a journey towards optimal. I'll probably be asking a lot more questions along the way as I need constant reassurance that I'm doing the right thing, this disease completely ruins your brain.
     
  4. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Please, please, please ask away..... you are only making this trip once - lets make it outrageous and wonderful and dream big........why the heck not.....

    My one big wish for you.......you will get back your health.....and then pay it forward and help others ......actually, I think you already see enough results to start paying it forward. I would guess that this disease is harder for a man?

    When you are staying with your parents and sleeping in a tent and looking at the stars and dreaming big dreams ....anything is possible!

    You will be able to create a movnat adventure for yourself every day in the forest ..... how lucky are you ..... beach and forest!! Are you able to do a movnat with Erwan? He has the whole mind/ body/ brain thing going on it. It would be worth every dime.

    Have you listened to the June webinar? and the Q&A with Erwan? Think of all this as the optimal investment in your health and future.

    Please be supremely positive about your future......allow no maybes.......everyone needs support from time to time but you are going to get there if you are 100% committed.....the alternate isn't an option.
    Even JK says he learns stuff from us sometime...... he might have just been being nice tho......

    Have you thought of having a BPC in the morning with your BAB? [bulletproof coffee .... and using MCT oil and GS butter in it plus cocoa and vanilla] Don't stress - you will get there.....you have years of wrong thinking to overcome but you will get there. If you fall down [and we all do] just get back up and start again. That is the mark of a committed, courageous person who is 100% all in.

    I would love it if you would post everyday and tell us the good, the bad and the ugly. Make a commitment to talk to strangers everyday and listen to their stories. Take yourself out of the equation for awhile ....and smile at a child and see what happens - they lite up the world! :)

    Have a great weekend!
     
  5. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    One other thing.... If you have a look at Dave Asprey's site ....he has things that might interest you - like colustrum and whey protein etc. etc. They may be really good things for you to add in.
     
  6. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    One more thing! Have you tried chocolate bark? ... I think that is what we call it

    Just melt some butter and coconut oil and a couple bars of dark chocolate [85% or more] then add some pistaschios and shredded coconut and macadamias or whatever you fancy - stir and put in a pan and let it set in the fridge....very yummy.

    This would be so good for you every day as a treat!
     
  7. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    Caroline, again thank you so much for all of your input and support, really appreciate it (keep it up, please)!

    It has definitely been difficult to tell it to certain people and I still find it easier to 'eating disorder' compared to 'anorexia'. I've been contacted by the national tv station by a reporter who wants to do a documentary about a guy with bulimia and me. She hasn't received final approval yet but I've said I want to participate to 'pay it forward' without sounding too philanthropic :)

    I'll look more into the MovNat but right now I don't want to plan too much ahead. I haven't heard any of Erwan's webinars actually, MovNat is pretty new to me other than I know the principles of it.

    I very rarely have coffee with my breakfast but have it a few hours after. I don't have anything particular against coffee along with breakfast, I just prefer to have it afterwards, especially when I go swimming after breakfast I don't want to drink anything hot.

    I was planning on doing an update of what I've been doing and how I feel each day - first one will be here later today :)

    I'm not a big fan of supplements, especially not something like protein powder, then I would rather eat some more. I do know of a place where I've sourced raw cream which is amazing :)

    I haven't tried the chocolate bark, it's one of those things I would exactly consider a treat and it would take me ages to get through because I would allow myself to eat it in small quantities a couple of times each week. I made some ganache with 99% chocolate and cream which I'm still fighting my way through. As I said, I need someone to tell me it's okay to eat. Basically what I would like right now is a diet plan to tell me how much to eat of everything. I have a fear of carbs, protein and fat, just to a varying degree. First I get scared of getting too many carbs, then it's protein because of perceived liver and kidney damage then it's fat because of cholesterol/triglycerides then it's the SCT, MCT, LCT, SFA, MUFA and PUFA - I try to optimise everything. So even though I much prefer the fat to carbs I get scared of eating too much fat at some point too, which is, most likely, at a too low level to fuel my body as I have chronic fatigue and feel cold very often.

    There are so many things to tell - I'll get to all of it at some point. I hope you and everybody continue to chime in and challenge my beliefs and perceived boundaries.
     
  8. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    Today started off with the usual weigh in before breakfast, which I still can't stop doing, to see that I weighed 53kg. I knew that I would most likely weigh a little more than yesterday but I didn't like seeing it at 53kg as I was at 51.6kg earlier this week. Something like that doesn't ruin my entire day but it did stop me from going all in on the BAB (at least I didn't get to 50g of protein). I felt cold and tired afterwards which I'm thinking could be because I didn't eat enough.
    I went to the beach to do a 15min swim (the water is around 17-18 degrees), going from being a little down I went to being so relieving and thinking that I'll make it anyway. Back home it was great getting a cup of coffee on the balcony with the sun shining from a clear sky.
    Afternoon was spent with my mentor (she is volunteering) at a farmer's market where I got some very good salmon and goat hearts which I'm really looking forward to tasting.

    Overall I guess it was a good day but I'm still so confused about how much I should be eating.
     
  9. @Hemming: You and I are more alike than I would have imagined from seeing a few of your previous posts. I too try to "optimize everything", as you can tell by my post on the PPP and ketosis, as well as some other posts here and on the Bulletproof Exec forums. Lot's of times I worry myself about too many things for little to no reason (macronutrients, similar to you, for instance). I don't have a diagnosed eating disorder, but now that I'm much more of a 'critical thinker', I know that I had/maybe still have an E.D. I used to worry about my body so much, I would do odd things to make myself 'look better', wouldn't wear certain clothes that were too baggy nor too tight because I'd look fat.... these are all things I see many girls my age now doing, and I'm a male! I'm in the same place as you now - I need to gain weight. I still worry about all the minutia. I'm reading and annotating the book The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle McDonald and I keep getting all worried about refeeds - will I eat so many carbs that I knock myself out of ketosis for more than a few days? Will I become extremely bloated the next morning? Am I simply going to be drastically raising my sdLDL and trigs? Am I not eating enough carbs during this period to gain muscle? Well, in the past week or two, oddly enough, I'm slowing down on all the worrying that I'm doing. That won't help anyone in a position similar to me or you.

    When I first started experimenting with my diet and how it makes me 'feel', as opposed to just eating something because it's perceived to be healthy and maybe, just maybe it will help me live a bit longer or prevent some unforeseen disease I probably wouldn't get anyhow, I started by cutting out gluten and very quickly progressing to a calorically deficient vegetarian diet. I wanted to lost weight that I didn't really need to lose. Sure, I wasn't ripped or anything, I was bulky, if I simply lost a little bit of fat or put on some muscle, all would be good. But no, I had to lose a bunch of weight. I dropped down to roughly 129lbs at about 5'8. The dark circles under my eyes that I developed Sophomore year of high school from enormous amounts of stress from family problems further developed. Some of my 'problems' I sought to defeat were improving, but others developed as well. I'm not trying to make this post about me, but I'm just trying to give some context so you don't think I'm just talking out my @$$, lol.

    If you weren't in the position that you were in, I'd recommend a book on cyclical dieting, but (please don't take offense), I feel as though you may end up worrying yourself over all the minute details and cause yourself more problems. I'd say you simply have to eat some calorie dense foods since you may have a problem with eating 'lots' of food so you gain the weight you need. I see you're doing the BAB's, so you're probably doing the Leptin Reset. I'd eat lots of eggs and dairy if you tolerate it. Cheese and cream are extremely calorie dense. You can even use cheese and cream to add calories to your morning breakfast without noticing it - add Heavy Whipping Cream to eggs, which makes them really fluffy and adds a interesting texture and creamy flavor, and hundreds of calories; add a bit to coffee in the morning and have it as a side to your meal; then add cheese to your eggs. You can easily get 1000kcal in your breakfast alone doing that. Considering you do CT and you seem to be active, and you eat a paleo/epi-paleo template, you don't have to worry about getting fat, and in your position a little fat may actually be beneficial, rather than negative. I would recommend nuts and seeds, but that is entirely dependent on context (although dairy is as well); each nut/seed has different pros and cons. I myself am waiting to get blood work done and to see how eating a seafood heavy diet makes me 'feel' and do the Leptin Reset through the whole summer, before I add in any nuts/seeds. I also want to see if they cause any cognitive decline after eating due to mold/heating/etc.

    Well I kind of went on a rant without getting to much of a point. I personally recommend that you continue reading Dr. Kruse' blogs, reading the forums, especially the Ask Jack threads, and continue updating us, because everyone here will help. Continue eating solid meals (no snacks) and breakfast. Continue CT. You should be able to 'rewire' your brain so to speak and beat this. If obesity and anorexia are truly in the same spectrum of problems (disordered hormonal signalling causing negative psychological feedback loops), then you can perform 'surgery without a blade' and help yourself. You can use these boards/us the members as your own free-of-charge personal cognitive behavioral therapy type device. Then, again, I recommend adding in lots of calorie dense foods. It might be hard in your position, even though you know you need to gain weight you still might have those thoughts in the back of you're head, "what if I get fat," or "what if I'm actually causing myself a slow predisposition to heart disease?" Realize that all those questions you may come up with are obstacles and you should in fact question those questions, lol. Try doing what I said if you tolerate dairy and add a bunch of cheese and HWC to eggs and you will consume massive amounts of calories. If you come up with some psychological aversion, think that how fluffy, light, and delicate the eggs become when you add HWC/cheese, that is how fluffy, light and delicate your lipoprotein particles are becoming thus helping you become healthier, not worse off (trigs/sdLDL). Maybe add face dunks specifically to your CT regiment to train your vagus nerve and mammalian dive reflex.

    Hope to see you post back ASAP!
     
  10. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    @BigPapaChakra777, thanks a lot for your kind words and chiming in, I didn't at all get the impression that you were trying to make the post about you. It's very interesting to hear from other people how they have worked with the same problems and it does seem like our stories are pretty similar.

    I love cheese and have no adverse effects from eating it but I'm still afraid of eating too much of it because of the insuliogenic effect and the protein. Regarding protein, I've been trying to find a particular recommendation for grams/kg of body weight on the Epi Paleo - if anyone is familiar with any I would be very happy to hear it. Jack did reply in the other thread, saying that I should just eat them but if I have 50g at breakfast then I would think that I'm already at, at least 50% of my daily protein need.
    Previously I could get bloated from cream but that seems to have gone away, at least if I eat it with other things. As I'm very interested in coffee beans I never put anything in my coffee :) I still find it difficult to eat that many nuts, the only ones I eat regularly are brazil and macadamina nut and the brazil nuts are maximally three at a time.

    I'm definitely continuing my morning swims (and now I have time to do it every day), it's really incredible how much of a therapeutic effect it has had on me. It was tough in the beginning (I remember shivering for two hours afterwards) but the feeling afterwards is so good.
     
  11. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    I am wondering about your weigh ins ......could you try to shift them to after your BAB? I guess you already know it would be best to not weigh yourself so often.

    Could you make some chocolate bark.....or ask your Mom to do it ....so you don't have to think about the fat calories etc. And then have a piece with your coffee. Maybe she could make you a gorgeous omelet with HC and a lovely cheese.
    Research the protein powder and colostrum on Dave Asprey's site. If I understand this correctly - colustrum is an
    excellent healing thing to have.

    You shouldn't be concerned about the amount of protein - that is what Dr. K was trying to tell you - I eat tons of fat and don't put any weight on at all. Eat a huge BAB and see where that takes you .....and try not to stress.

    I know - easier said than done. That was the reason for the BPC - extra fat.

    Just take one day at a time......try to do something out of your ordinary everyday ...and then tell us about it!

    Alot of us here have had eating disorders - me included. The BAB works wonders.

    Have another great day.....
     
  12. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    The weighs in are irrational but one way I can 'control' what is happening to my body. I love numbers and to quantify everything. Previously, I would weigh everything I ate. Now I don't have to weigh everything but then I err on the 'safe side' by eating less because I don't have the control of knowing exactly how much I eat.

    I haven't moved back home (yet) but mom would make me anything I asked for :) I'll have a look at the colustrum.

    Yesterday i would say that I ate more than normally - especially fat. This morning I could see that my stomach looked less bloated and I was 52.5kg. I've had problems for a long time with edema in my legs and stomach and I can actually see that it gets better when I eat more - still I'm too stupid to fully realise it and eat more consistently.

    When I was at the farmer's market yesterday I came to think of you and started a longer discussion with some of the people there. The most priceless comment was 'you're the first white man to ask for goat kidneys' from the same guy who I bought the goat hearts from :)
    I live near a very big nature reserve and I was thinking of doing a half day walk around there for trying something different. Tomorrow I have a test day at a specialist clinic for eating disorders, looking at the weather forecast I would rather not go and enjoy the weather instead :)

    @BigPapa, I forgot to mention, I have exactly the same thoughts as you about ketosis thinking 'will this little extra cauliflower knock me out of ketosis?' Today when I biked back from the beach I came by one of the best ice cream places in Denmark where they make everything from scratch from the best ingredients. I know I wouldn't die from having an ice cream but it is something I would never allow myself at this point.

    Question for everyone. I've often noticed that I get dots/clouds in front of my eyes when I'm out in the sun or when I'm biking, even sitting on the balcony reading Jack's book. Could this be sodium deficiency or dehydration?
     
  13. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    Today I went for a test day at a specialist clinic, I can't stop thinking about One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest... I just feel that there is too much control of the patients there for my situation. I appreciate that some people need the control but asking for permission to do a lot of things and 'deciding' whether or not I should go to Paris in August is ridiculous to me. My problem is not that I don't eat at all but that I need to eat more and be comfortable with gaining weight. Besides that, there is a big focus on the 'healthy grains' and a 'balanced diet' - I simply don't believe in any of those.
    That's not saying I don't have a problem but it needs to be handled in a different way.

    It was great getting home and going to the beach for a swim!
     
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    When your not weighing enough.......you need an unbalanced diet to gain the weight.......more protein and carbs than normal and less fats until you catch up.......and you must pay attn to the environment when you do it.
     
  15. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    Thanks Jack, but I don't expect you mean more carbs in the form of industrially made crispbread and strawberry ice cream as I was given today. Your recommendation on protein has also helped me with my fear of eating too much of it.

    I'm trying to do as much as possible about the environment and my daily life. I CT/swim everyday, limit EMF/time in front of the computer, maximise sun exposure walking/biking in green/forestry areas, sleep 8-9 hours (following the sun and with sleep mask and ear plugs), eat locally grown vegetables which are in season, drink non-fluoridated water and (obviously) read your book and blog :)
    If anyone has more specific tips for things I could do I would be very happy to hear them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  16. It's odd you talk about those 'dots', I too have them, but even when I'm not in the sun... no matter where I'm at. I have eye floaters AND something called visual snow, which to my knowledge doesn't have a very well known cause. I can perceive it more when in a very dark or very light area (fluorescent lights/darkness at night), I wonder if you are describing the same thing...
     
  17. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    that is a sign of inflammation in the cornea.........
     
  18. Hemming

    Hemming New Member

    The visual snow I can kind of relate to but for me it's almost only when exercising and right when I get into the sun.
     
  19. So what do you recommend, Dr. Kruse? The visual snow I've had since a child, I remember one day it randomly appeared and I told my mom I saw 'tv fuzz' everywhere, especially when it was dark. Floaters I've had for at least a few years, maybe longer. When I had my eyes checked when I was 17 at the ophthalmologist they said my eyes were fine and it was either (1) in my head, or (2) something that could be fixed with pharmaceutical eye drops..... I knew it wasn't in my head and I was in no way, shape, or form taking pharmaceutical anything.... especially not daily eye drops, lol. As of now I've just been keeping it in the back of my head and hoping as my diet gets increasingly nutrient dense and I can start affording more 'whole fish' (heads/eyes/etc.) and organ meats, it would get better. If not, I was going to look into Yoga For Your Eyes by Meir Schneider and perform those exercises daily. If you have any recommendations I'd get started on that now.... my quality of life would be so much better without visual snow and floaters - although it's just an annoyance it is a rather large annoyance that I deal with daily.
     
  20. colt

    colt Gold

    In some reports it goes away or is not present when looking through glass and/or sun glasses. Does this have to do with the Suprachiasmatic nucleus (SP??)
    Is there something we can do for it?
     

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