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Gerson therapy, Terry wahls and electrons.

Discussion in 'The Epi-Paleo Diet' started by Warren Canavan, Jul 28, 2022.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    It matters where your protein comes from. A new study illustrates how much harder it is to wrestle non-heme iron out of a bean than out of fish (2.7 x easier) or beef (4.2 x easier).

    https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/15/3162
     
    Warren Canavan likes this.
  2. Warren Canavan

    Warren Canavan New Member

    Dr Gerson saw the potassium/sodium balance thing. I am pretty sure he did not know about light/sunlight and mitochondria - but he did know it as a metabolic problem(which is based in mitochondria). But he could definitely tell there is a battery problem, because he saw there was a battery effect from potassium inside the cell and sodium needed outside the cell, and cancer patients not being able to maintain this balance. So my understanding is that mitochondria are not producing enough energy, they have been either destroyed, the cell has become senescent, the mitochondria are sick. Dr Gerson also notes the first symptom leading to cancer is fatigue, i.e. mitochondrial dysfunction. His understanding was it was the immune system the was primary, i.e. a malfunctioning immune system cannot identify and destroy cancer tissue. He definitely understood correctly it to be a systemic issue in the body and not a local phenomenon(although the liver has a high rank of importance).
     
    JanSz likes this.
  3. Warren Canavan

    Warren Canavan New Member

    The gerson therapy was based on the idea of low protein/ low fat, no animal products for cancer patients. But I think it was only intended until you overcame the cancer. I think Charlotte Gerson, his daughter, went the whole way with vegetable foods saying that there is sufficient protein in veg and minimal animal protein. In her older age, she did seem very well, and cognitively very active. In my opinion, maybe when the mitochondria are back online, we can tolerate protein and fats, we have the energy to pay for the upfront energy cost to process them by the body.
     
    JanSz likes this.
  4. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    At about 38.50 onwards on this video is an explanation of the way the Gerson therapy views pH. :)

     
    JanSz likes this.
  5. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    pH from food isn't germane. That is total BS way to look at it. What happens in the matrix with respect to food is
     
    8Phoenix and JanSz like this.
  6. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Thank you @Sue-UK

    There is something big to the potassium.
    Eating in the morning a one teaspoon of potassium bicarbonate, stopped my GERD cold.
    Potassium bicarbonate is the inorganic compound with the chemical formula KHCO₃. It is a white solid.
    That worked reliably for about a year and a half by now.
    But, I still have nightly muscle cramps.
    Now is the fourth night when I added another teaspoon of KHCO3
    So far, no cramps.

    I see that @Jack Kruse is not buying the story,
    but
    I know if GERD hurts me or not, same with nightly muscle cramps.
    So, I would welcome an explanation of why that is actually happening.
    And,
    more importantly,
    why am I constantly low on potassium?

    It is hard for me to get (reliably)
    potassium (RBC)
    tested. LabCorp is screwing up and giving me (potassium serum).

    Will have to work on that harder.
    The plan is to keep increasing my potassium bicarbonate dose until I will be reading at about the top of the laboratory range.
    My one and only (potassium RBC) test was about right at the lowest laboratory range.

    What is cancer. Cancer is a lump of fat. My liposarcoma in my left thigh was like a sack of about one liter big.
    If I get more potassium in me possibly all three will be gone.
    GERD, cramps, cancer.


    Amazon.com: Potassium Compound Salts - for Gerson Therapy - Crystalized Powder - 100GMS : Health & Household
    upload_2022-8-2_15-1-11.png

    Amazon.com: Pure Original Ingredients Potassium Bicarbonate (2 lb) Natural, Food Safe, Electrolyte, Leavening : Health & Household
    upload_2022-8-2_15-7-57.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2022
  7. 8Phoenix

    8Phoenix New Member

    Jansz why your potassium was depleted any idea
     
    JanSz likes this.
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    My questioning my potassium level started when @DrEttinger posted this:
    And when I questioned about how he arrived at that, I got this:
    https://www.advancedhealing.com/wp-content/uploads/Potassium-BEST.pdf

    upload_2022-8-2_20-2-25.png

    =====================================================

    Apparently, we are built to need rather large amounts of potassium.
    And today's diets are not even close to meeting these needs.
    So, most peoples are short on potassium, which goes twice for those who exercise heavily.

    '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
    See these posts for more details.
    https://www.forum.jackkruse.com/ind...ot-a-disease-damn-it.25242/page-9#post-295138

    https://www.forum.jackkruse.com/ind...ot-a-disease-damn-it.25242/page-9#post-295168
    .....................
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2022
  9. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    What the potassium comes with could make a difference. :)

    In his book Eat to Beat Disease, Dr William Li says that, like a tumour, a mass of fat requires new blood vessels to feed the fat cells. But (aside from any drug developed or being developed), there is anti angiogenesis effects in certain foods. As an example, a Gerson staple, carrots, is on his list of anti angiogenic foods, as well as being on other defence lists, such as DNA repair.

    From the Gerson org website

    "Carrots contain a compound called falcarinol which is a natural pesticide. It protects the roots from fungal disease. A team of researchers from the University of Newcastle in England and Denmark found this natural pesticide reduced the risk of cancer developing in rats by one third. Research has confirmed that this substance has more anti-cancer properties than beta-carotene".
     
  10. 8Phoenix

    8Phoenix New Member

    Thank you JanSz
    For your answer

    In the past I use to use baking soda to scrubb body skin
    Because I noticed skin ends very clean easy
    And the most visible of this action
    Was
    On me skin will change color with become
    Temperature sensitive with cooler water will become little purple to a degree almost like the skimo people
    And them warmer water will become a bit red almost like a was in sun
    Then I stop for two years

    Now a new twist to try
    Sodium bicarbonate instead of baking soda
    But I occur to me to take a drop of blood weekly basis
    And something like a time laps photography
    Any idea or advice is appreciated






    But I stop, for a time
    After your posting
    I thing I'll try it again
     
  11. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    I do not understand what you are proposing to do.
    Possibly @Sue-UK

    ......
     
  12. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    I have changed the brand of potassium bicarbonate, and now have data that is posted on the bag that it came with.
    1/8 tsp=800mg(of k bicarbonate=300mg potassium)
    1 tsp=2400mg potassium
    per
    https://www.forum.jackkruse.com/ind...ot-a-disease-damn-it.25242/page-9#post-295138

    doi:10.1016/j.semnephrol.2006.10.003 (advancedhealing.com)
    https://www.advancedhealing.com/wp-content/uploads/Potassium-BEST.pdf
    70kg=154 lbs person needs 454 mEq/day
    table in that post says that
    454 mEq/day=17706mg/day potassium
    17706/2400=7.3775=7.4 teaspoons
    Looking at the picture below (Beyond potassium) the best of us are eating no more than
    (200 - 250)mEq/day
    454-250=204 mg potassium a day
    (204*17706/454)=7956 mg/day
    that is
    7956/2400=3.35 most of us are missing 3.35 (teaspoons of potassium bicarbonate/day)

    upload_2022-8-3_10-47-50.png

    AmazonSmile: Pure Original Ingredients Potassium Bicarbonate (2 lb) Natural, Food Safe, Electrolyte, Leavening : Health & Household

    upload_2022-8-3_10-3-33.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
    John Schumacher likes this.
  13. 8Phoenix

    8Phoenix New Member

     
    JanSz likes this.
  14. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    From https://www.advancedhealing.com/wp-content/uploads/Potassium-BEST.pdf

    Not sure I buy 17706 mg/day as being ideal. The Yanomamo may eat 17706 mg/454 mEq/d, but probably just excrete the excess. The bicarbonate precursors is interesting.

    "Fruits and vegetables, particularly leafy greens, vine fruit [a.k.a., vegetable fruit] (such as tomatoes, cucumbers, zucchini, eggplant, and pumpkin), and root vegetables, are good sources of potassium and bicarbonate precursors. Although meat, milk, and cereal products contain potassium, they do not contain enough bicarbonate precursors to balance their acid-forming precursors, such as sulfur-containing amino acids"

    This https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Potassium-HealthProfessional/

    says the "kidneys can adapt to variable potassium intakes in healthy individuals, but a minimum of 5 mmol (about 195 mg) potassium is excreted daily in urine. This, combined with other obligatory losses, suggests that potassium balance cannot be achieved with intakes less than about 400–800 mg/day."

    "The intracellular concentration of potassium is about 30 times higher than the extracellular concentration, and this difference forms a transmembrane electrochemical gradient that is maintained via the sodium-potassium (Na+/K+) ATPase transporter. In addition to maintaining cellular tonicity, this gradient is required for proper nerve transmission, muscle contraction, and kidney function. "

    If someone has the right amount of intracellular and extracellular potassium, and is excreting potassium in normal amounts, there would be no need to take in high amounts continuously.

    The Gerson therapy uses 20lb fruit and veg a day plus the potassium compound, but I think it assumes major deficiency, and the enemas would be causing some losses of potassium over and above normal (or possibly abnormal due to disease) excretion losses.

    Another thing that interests me is how much deuterium is being ingested doing Gerson .... The only thing I've found so far is that one of the potassiums in the potassium compound, mono potassium phosphate seems to link to deuterium (and light?) by way of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_dideuterium_phosphate :confused:
     
  15. JanSz

    JanSz Gold



    upload_2022-8-4_13-41-52.png

    They still are talking about blood serum potassium and how bad that test is. Why do not they suggest removing that test?

    As for other methods
    why they do not mention
    potassium RBC test that LabCorp and Quest have?
    ------------------------------------

    400-800mg/day is meaningless
    when comparing to
    17706 mg/day
    -------------------------------------

    There is so many important details, that I am scratching my head.
    Now I have to say sorry for overlooking what seem to be highly important information in the post of @DrEttinger one and half years ago.
    Aging is Not a Disease, Damn It! | Page 9 | Jack Kruse Optimal Health Forum

    So far, I have been taking my potassium bicarbonate early in the morning.
    That stopped my GERD, and since that time I do not have to take
    Betaine hydrochloride pills that I have been taking for decades.

    But I was not even thinking that my nightly muscle cramps are also result of low potassium.
    Now 82. Those cramps started about in early 1970's.

    Long story short,
    for the last 5 days I have increased Potassium Bicarbonate to two teaspoons.
    One about 3PM the other before bedtime.
    Stopped quinine pills.
    So far, no nightly cramps.

    .........
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
    Josie Thomson likes this.
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  17. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    The serum levels in most people may be "normal" but it could (for example) be at the expense of the bones, a potassium storage site. You could presumably also have "normal" RBC potassium levels if the bone was giving it up. Someone with GERD isn't a healthy individual. The 17706 mg per day wouldn't be necessary for healthy individuals (good heterosplasmy?) who have ample stored in say the liver and bone, who were only losing (say) 800mg a day. If 17706 mg/d from diet were essential, humans would never have survived periods of food scarcity, and people wouldn't be able to fast for long. If a man was to start eating 3400mg/day whilst only losing 800mg, over a period of time he would presumably be topping up his storage reserves. If he was losing more than 800 mg/d the question is why? Heavy exercise/sweating? Or a disease process? The 20 lb of fruit and veg and the potassium compound of the Gerson therapy would provide much higher levels than 3400mg, but that's for advanced disease, not maintaining optimum, or improving heteroplasmy.

    The other thing is the sun and biological transmutation....... which the dietary part of the Gerson therapy aversion to sodium doesn't touch ......

    For example sodium transmuted to potassium. Kervran studied oil workers in the Sahara, and found "the workers ate tremendous amounts of salt (sodium chloride). Some of this was lost in perspiration and some in the feces, but a lot of it simply "disappeared". He also found that the men put out huge amounts of potassium through the sweat glands although their diet was very low in potassium. Later experiments have demonstrated that the conversion of sodium to potassium takes up heat. It is an endothermic process. This provides an explanation of how the extra heat could be removed from their bodies. It also explains how potassium can be found in perspiration during very hot weather even though ordinary salt (sodium chloride) tablets are taken.

    Kervran also found in another study that the Sahara workers excreted over 250 milligrams more magnesium every day than they ingested. This went on for 8 months, although at this rate, body magnesium reserves should have been exhausted in 8 days."


    (quote from Diet and Nutrition a holistic approach, Rudolph Ballentine MD)

    So any tribe's excretion rate of potassium may not relate exclusively to dietary intake, if that community usually lives an outdoor existence at or relatively near the equator.
     
    JanSz likes this.
  18. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Thank you.
    Above may be a good defense of Big Pharma profits in selling their stuff, some of which secures additional profits because it starts cancers.

    I just had another night free of muscle cramps.
    And those changes (elimination of GERD & cramps) were achieved with just 2 teaspoons of Potassium Bicarbonate timed better.
    2 teaspoons
    out of 7.4 teaspoons that I may need overall.

    ....
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  19. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  20. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member



    I think the discussion around Gerson and potassium goes beyond something being cheap, or stopping big pharma making money. [​IMG] I would say the 2 teaspoons may have eliminated the symptoms of GERD and cramps, but the underlying cause of why you need to time it right or may eventually need to take up to 7.4 teaspoons could be masked as well. It may be that the reason is non reversible in your n=1, but if I needed that level of intake despite regularly getting a good amount of sunlight I would be wondering why can't I transmute other elements into potassium? (Aluminium? Lack of silica? Deuterium starvation? EMFs and artificial light? Even the Gerson protocol that has developed since the original dietary regime warns against emfs and particularly 5G). If my dietary intake was good, is the potassium being transmuted into something else?



    From https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/biohacking-inositol.25081/#post-290523



    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/coast-to-coast-mention.18845/#post-205227

    ---------------------------------------------

    http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/number/atomic-number.htm

    1 Hydrogen H

    2 Helium He

    3 Lithium Li

    4 Beryllium Be

    5 Boron B

    6 Carbon C

    7 Nitrogen N

    8 Oxygen O

    9 Fluorine F

    10 Neon Ne

    11 Sodium Na

    12 Magnesium Mg (April 2016) time 1:09:00--->Mg--->Na

    13 Aluminum Al

    14 Silicon Si

    15 Phosphorus P

    16 Sulfur S

    17 Chlorine Cl

    18 Argon Ar

    19 Potassium K

    20 Calcium Ca (April 2016)time 1:08:29 -->Ca-->K potasium

    21 Scandium Sc

    22 Titanium Ti

    23 Vanadium V

    24 Chromium Cr

    25 Manganese Mn

    26 Iron Fe

    27 Cobalt Co

    28 Nickel Ni

    29 Copper Cu

    30 Zinc Zn

    34 Selenium Se[/QUOTE]
     
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