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Favourite poems

Discussion in 'The Cave' started by Gagnrad, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. thomas

    thomas Sun Worshipper

    nope,Can't see it.
    Also, I don't know better ways to recover than all that nature stuff(food/environment/behavior). Drugs and conventional medicine will only make things worse..
  2. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    Yes, I can. If you can't that may just be a function of the device you're looking at it on. It's there all right.

    Did you know that Lessing had said that he thought that individuality almost, so to speak, demanded reincarnation, since it would take several lifetimes to develop one's knowledge and power? Isn't that a thought that's redolent of 18th century German thought and the Romantic Movement?

    There's a nice a paradox there, too - since in the East where it is simply and unreflectively believed in individuality, on the contrary, was seen as an aberration and something to be got rid of.

    But perhaps you or I or someone else should come up with another good poem, before this thread wanders everywhere and totally gives the lie to its title. LOL
  3. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    Then try it as a link rather than imbedded:

  4. b612

    b612 New Member

    Me too. I spent 5 days by the sea.... still couldn't sleep. Wonder if it's iodine that is making me hyperactive.
    I took a book to read on the plane today. I tried to read one page during 2 hours. MIssion imposible. I'm so sleep deprived
  5. b612

    b612 New Member

    Dutch Interiors

    Written by Jane Kenyon

    Christ has been done to death
    in the cold reaches of northern Europe
    a thousand thousand times.
    Suddenly bread
    and cheese appear on a plate
    beside a gleaming pewter beaker of beer.

    Now tell me that the Holy Ghost
    does not reside in the play of light
    on cutlery!

    A Woman makes lace,
    with a moist-eyed spaniel lying
    at her small shapely feet.
    Even the maid with the chamber pot
    is here; the naughty, red-cheeked girl.

    And the merchant's wife, still
    in her yellow dressing gown
    at noon, dips her quill into India ink
    with an air of cautious pleasure.

    This poem has a little bit of everything that we discussed above. Northern Europe, ghosts, India and stuff :glasses:
  6. b612

    b612 New Member

    E.A Poe must have written a lot about ghosts.
    R.Frost too.
  7. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    A ghost is a bit of a morbid subject for a poem, isn't it? But then you did say Poe. LOL

    Best I can offer is a translation of Horace Ode 4.7 by Dr. Johnson


    But then is a "shade" to be understood as a ghost? ...
  8. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    I got around to watching the video.

    I missed that comment first time I read that post. You're not the only one on this forum to say so.

    But a "ghost" is usually understood as someone who's "stuck" hanging around the scenes of his life and unable to pass on somewhere else. Not the same thing as "returning" having had previous lives, surely?

    Thanks. That was quite something. Everyone should watch that.

    I was interested in the the different attitudes of the two academics. The American was far more open-minded than the British academic, wasn't he? (Interesting that he was also a kind man and clearly more concerned that the boy was feeing comfortable with the whole process than he was in his own research.)

    The Englishman was careful not to rule out the possibility of anything he didn't understand - because he clearly realised that there could be no logical grounds for doing so - but he didn't want to think there was, did he? I found it quite interesting that there was this little vignette where he voices what comes across as a rationalisation in which he explains why people would want to believe in such phenomena. He never thinks to turn that around the other way and ask whether he himself wants not believe in them. So he offers us "science" as a token, missing the fact that science deals with what we apprehend through the five senses; and that it doesn't, therefore, follow that what comes to us through the senses is all there is. He contrasts this with "belief" stating that it's obvious - but is it? - that we would all wish to believe in reincarnation.

    The documentary makers amusingly undermine this statement by immediately cutting to a scene in which the lady in the midwest, brought up a Southern Baptist, points out that the notion of reincarnation violated her existing belief system.

    There's no "proof" here, but the circumstantial detail, while it's not conclusive, is so strong that it tends to be persuasive.

    What did occur to me was that Cameron could have been tapping into memories that were - somehow - around, but that weren't actually his. There's an alternative explanation. This would still be something "unusual" - paranormal, if you like - but rather different. I thought no one would suggest that, but I think the American academic possibly did hint at that as a possibility towards the end of the film. Against that you have that Cameron seems to remember some kind of transition between lives - little said about that - and that what he says in this respect matches pretty closely what the boy in the midwest, whom he has never met, also says.
  9. b612

    b612 New Member

    Sorry for my absence. I hope you missed me :p

    Every time I get really sick (like I got last week) I remember my favorite poems and books that I read long time ago... how they used to make me feel.
    I wonder why I never feel like this when I'm not sick. Probably that's why I get sick... just to come back to my older self?

    Horace... I can't remember anything about him. Was he a boring guy?
    What I remember from my Antic literature class is that our teacher made us read the entire Iliad. And Odyssey as well, of course. :tears:

    Titus Lurectius is my favorite.
    De rerum natura (On the nature of things).
    He tried to explain the entire world around us.

    At this stage you must admit that whatever is seen to be sentient is nevertheless composed of atoms that are insentient. The phenomena open to our observation so not contradict this conclusion or conflict with it. Rather they lead us by the hand and compel us to believe that the animate is born, as I maintain, of the insentient.


    Trees don't live in the sky, and clouds don't swim
    In the salt seas, and fish don't leap in wheatfields,
    Blood isn't found in wood, nor sap in rocks.
    By fixed arrangement, all that live and grows
    Submits to limit and restrictions.


    Matter's basic elements are solid,
    Completely so, and that they fly through time
    Invincible, indestructible for ever.

    LUCRETIUS, De Rerum Natura
  10. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    Of course.

    I don't know much about him. Powerful translation of the carpe diem ode here (almost the last thing on that page right at the bottom):

    … this same wind

    which even now is breaking the rampant

    Tuscan seas
    in foam against embattled rock.


    Maybe not that easy to grasp what he means by "seize the day". Not quite what a modern person might think was meant by the phrase, I'd think. That poem seems to be saturated with a feeling that life is fleeting, but he's certainly saying something other than to take refuge in the pleasure of the senses, even if he is calling for the wine to be poured. The concern with the present also seems to be linked with some kind of religious feeling that also raises scruples about trying to pry into the future

    I've read a translation. I've got hardly any Latin. My understanding is that he is a very accomplished poet. Interesting that even as late as that someone could set out to write the equivalent of work of physics and do it in verse!
  11. b612

    b612 New Member

    Don't you think Lucretius looks a bit like Dante?
  12. b612

    b612 New Member

  13. b612

    b612 New Member

  14. b612

    b612 New Member

    This subject is very interesting.
    I have to watch the documentary again.

    But I can't stay online any longer.
    I have decided to leave you here alone for a while with this:

    Where did you live in your previous life?
  15. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    Nowhere that I know of. LOL

    There's an interesting experience related by a friend and co-presenter of this site's owner in an interview he recently published. And I suppose one could interpret it in such terms.

    It happened to him in a float tank. Did you know that the man who invented these had theorised that if he stopped sensory input coming into the brain the mind would likely simply shut down? Bad assumption. It does anything but that.


    "… I who have sat at Thebes below the wall. And walked among the lowest of the dead."

    Where does that fragment come from? And since that question's too easy, who says it and how did he annoy the goddess?
  16. b612

    b612 New Member

    Can you tell me who else can see ghosts on this forum?
    Are they active members?

    I would like to share more but it's rather personal and I don't want other peopleto think that I'm mad.
    I can pm you with the place, date and time where you have to go to see them if you are interested :glasses:

    Ghosts are not all the same.
    There are ghosts that are like nn EMF, you can feel something is wrong and that your body is scared but there's no visible evidence... they are there, they touch things around you, they make their own order of things that belong to you.


    I watched the story again.
    It's interesting what you noticed. I would like to find their scientific papers and case studies.
    I didn't care about what others were saying or thinking, I was trying to catch every single expression on Cameron's face.
    The moment when they went to see the house... he looked so overwhelmed. I don't think kids of his age can fake crying. (I started to cry too LOL)
    He also looks very self confident and too intelligent for his age.

    Yesterday my hairdresser said " I love Italy so much that I think I lived there in my previous life".
    Probably the phrase "I lived there in my previous life" is not a feeling but just a phrase that we use to express our closeness with a place?

    If you say that you don't know where you lived it means you really don't know LOL.
    Because I know that I lived somewhere in the North, no question about it.
  17. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    Yes, Gretchen - posting name @Shijin13 - can.

    IIRC, when on Okinawa with the U.S. Navy she once saw a file of Japanese infantry marching through a truck she was in.

    Yes, she's very active and actually a forum moderator here.

    You can PM me about it, if you want.

    But I wouldn't want to go to see them, because I think there are issues around that. If this isn't just images of an event repeating itself, but there actually are beings there, then the traditional view seems to be that they're there, because they're troubled. So it's been said that going to look merely out of curiosity would be a bit like sightseeing at an unfortunate accident. That seems a valid point to me.

    Maybe they're using your energy in some way.

    The story is actually very different from Evan Brand's experience that I linked above, where he had a vision of Ancient Egypt. Evan didn't even suggest that it was a memory from a past life. He had the sense of being suddenly present in Ancient Egypt and seeing a vista in front of him. But that's all. But Cameron has a subjective certainty that the experiences are his.

    The quoted phrase was from The Wasteland again. "… I who have sat at Thebes below the wall …" Ancient Egypt, of course. It's Tiresias who speaks. Eliot says in the notes that the passage from Ovid that he is using "has great anthropological significance". I was thinking of his having angered Hera, but there's another story in which he provoked Athena's anger - so I guess one could say "which goddess"? He's an important figure in Œdipus Rex, too, of course.

    And you know where else he turns up in later literature? Inferno XX.
  18. b612

    b612 New Member

    Are you very old?
    If you are not, it means you are extremely well educated. You know so many things and post so much information that makes my poor blond head explode!
  19. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    Come to think of it I suppose I am - compared to you at 25 anyway.

    It's really not so much. I happen to know most of the Wasteland, so that quote just sort of fell out when I thought of Egypt. And, being interested to follow it up, I refreshed my memory about Tiresias with a dictionary of mythology. I mentioned his turning up in the Inferno, because I know Dante interests you. I wasn't posting that bit at the end of the last post to boast - or I hope I wasn't (I'm not sure we always see our own motives very clearly). I just thought it was the kind of thing that interested you.

    I was concerned that you sounded distressed. You'd said that you were worried about people thinking you mad. And you seemed upset at some experiences - moving objects and suchlike.

    You really are welcome to PM me if it would help to talk about it and you don't want to publicly. I'll try to think of another poem you may like.
  20. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    The Road goes ever on and on,
    Down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone,
    And I must follow, if I can,
    Pursuing it with eager feet,
    Until it joins some larger way
    Where many paths and errands meet.
    And whither then? I cannot say.
    b612 likes this.

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