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Fasted State Training Stories

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Barry, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Just want to start this thread so people can share their experiences and others can learn



    Here's my training today:



    Breakfast: coffee



    Training: 3hrs Mountain Run



    During: nothing, just a few sips of water



    Lunch: 1pm, 3 x egg, 3 x bacon, Red&Yellow chargrilled peppers



    Anyone else doing something similar ??



    Endurance Fasted State = Keto + CRON + IF + NF-kB + Sirtuin + IS + LS + BAT + UCP-3 aka CT ;-)
     
  2. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    glycogen depletion to stimulate AMPk.......the key is what do you do to stimulate when you refeed.......are you Leangains or are you using protein as you favorite carb? There is the question.
     
  3. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Hi Jack



    not leangains, sometimes cyclical ketogenic... but I'm spending more and more time fully keto now



    Refeed = BCAA's + protein + SCT + MCT



    favourite carb = fats ;-)



    Do you think this way of eating increases Ammonia production ?
     
  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    No on the ammonia front.....only if your sick or have bad glutathione levels. I just did an 16 re feed........with a smoothie......BCAA and coconut manna and some fruit and olive oil........yep olive oil and some bacon in it.
     
  5. Barry

    Barry New Member

    thats more CHO than me !!



    I'm down with oleic acid too, good for CM biochem ;-)



    Also, good to use BCAA with high leucine:iso/valine ratio.



    So do you recommend some carb post fasting ?
     
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    yes....I am ramping up carbs.....im now doing another bio hack.......so do not follow what I am doing now.....I have decided to test something new I found.
     
  7. Barry

    Barry New Member

    don't worry, wouldn't do such a thing ;-)



    I know what works for me now, N=1 that is



    good luck with it and keep us posted..
     
  8. Jim

    Jim New Member


    Here's my training today:



    FYI Last meal was at 3PM yesterday.



    Preworkout: 15 gms BCAA plus normal supplements including glutathione



    Training: Weights 20 min HIT style one set to exhaustion.



    During: nothing



    Post workout: 15 gms BCAA



    Breakfast: 5 x egg, 7 x bacon, 1 oz shredded cheese, coconut oil 1 oz



    Followed up with 45 min CT session @ 58 deg F
     
  9. Relentless

    Relentless New Member

    I just joined the forums, my name is Steven. The fitness aspect of all of this is what interests me most. I've read some of the other threads you've started Barry and I'd like to say that I really enjoy the ideas and questions that you bring up.



    Here is a look into my fasted state training.



    My training consists of heavy weight/Olympic lifting sessions with some high intensity stuff to finish or on a separate day (hill sprints, sled work, etc..). I've never done any type of really intense endurance stuff.



    Nutrition: I follow a carb cycling approach, Carbs on training days, very minimul(under 10g) Carbs on off days. 16/8 intermittent fasting, 16hr fast followed by an 8hr eating window.



    Training day:



    11:45 - 1 cup coffee, 15g BCAAs



    12:00 - Train



    12:45 - PWO shake, 50g Raw grassfed un-pasteurized whey protein with 100g Carbs from potato starch or fruit and coconut water



    3:00 - 5 eggs



    6:30 - Huge salad of spinach, kale, mixed greens, olive oil, apple cider vinegar. Around 16oz of grassfed beef, wild caught salmon, or free range organic chicken. Couple of tablespoons of coconut oil or manna.



    7:30 - coconut milk with 100% cocoa powder and coconut manna mixed in. All organic. Cod Liver oil or krill oil(whatever I have handy) 5-8g



    Non Training day:



    Same as above, except little to no Carbs and I will replace my pre and post workout stuff with a shake consisting of 25g protein and a greens supplement.



    I also wave my calories, so calories are at maintenance or a little above on training days and less then maintenance on non-training days.



    Any critique is welcome, positive or negative, I'm very open minded.
     
  10. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Jim & Relentless



    thanks for sharing. Both look good. I will say that while I have nothing against weight/HIIT training, this type of training does not lead to the same adaptations I get from the ultra stuff. Firstly, I don't think you can go CRON, your workouts are 45mins, mine could be 4-5hrs. I have worked out my calorie deficits and somedays they are huge. One reason is I simply miss meals while i am training e.g. I go empty so miss breakfast, then I might not return until mid afternoon so I miss lunch. Then I might just eat for recovery and then main evening meal. It results in serious CRON. And from this arises major adaptations, its one of the backbones of Jacks whole hypothesis I think. Also, the other major difference I think in terms of adaptations is Fat Adaptation. Ultra training in the fasted state leads to huge upregulation of fat oxidation in particular IMTG. The glycogen depletion aspect of it then raises AMPk which ramps up mitochodrial biogensis. This is good for me, not as good for you guys as this can inhibit mTOR. But again, all these adaptations collectively work in a different way.



    I think you still do benefit from fasted state training adaptations but not in the CRON, Fat Adaptation, Aerobic gene expression kind of way. There is actually some research that shows fasted state training improves protein synthesis which helps you guys.



    Relentless - one thing you might want to look at is whether you are keto or not, or want to be keto ? With a CHO intake of >100g, you may not be keto. In this case you are then still low carb, but not keto, so you may be shooting yourself in the foot. I'm no 100% sure on this so let me explain:



    80g CHO per day = non keto, more glycolytic i.e. you rely more on glucose



    So if you rely more on glucose, but you are supplying a low amount, then your energy levels may suffer ? In other words, you may be better off having 200-300g per day. Either that or go keto, reduce recovery to 50g. But you tell me, I presume you feel good, train well and get progressive adaptations ? There is the possibility that you are still keto as your SCT and glycogenic amino acid intake is high.. so this produces more ketones.



    just my 2 cents ;-)
     
  11. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Correction: I mean ketogenic amino acids not "glucogenic"
     
  12. Relentless

    Relentless New Member

    Thanks for the feedback Barry. I completely agree, the benefits you get from fasted state training are directly related to the type of training that the individual does.



    I'm not keto at the moment. What I'm going to do though is experiment on myself over the course of the next year, nutrition wise. I'll be monitoring strength levels, amount of lean muscle gained or lost during different nutrition protocols, etc....



    I'm planning on continuing carb cycling and increasing my Carbs steadily over the course of the summer. Then slowly reduce Carbs during the fall, and finally, completely eliminate them once winter arrives......going Full keto and starting CT. We'll see what happens i guess ;).



    I'm 6' tall, with about 11%BF @ 210lbs. Another couple questions, how has your training/nutrition affected your lean muscle mass and body composition, positive? Negative? What's your height, weight, BF %?



    This thread has been awesome so far!
     
  13. Barry

    Barry New Member


    Steven,



    thanks, glad it interests you. I do what I do not for aesthetics. I do what I do because I love it. Simple as that. I happen to know a lot about nutrition so that helps me enjoy it even more ! Now, if you read between the lines, I'm talking about a lot of what Jack relates too. But anyway, from doing what I love to do, I look like this:




    [​IMG]



    But I emphasize this: my priority is not to look good. My priority is to feel good and enjoy life. What comes from that is a just a bonus. I'm not trying to build muscle, I'm not looking for the "beach body", and I'm not trying to be a cover model. There are lots of guys bigger and more ripped than me, for sure, but thats not what I'm about ;-)
     
  14. Relentless

    Relentless New Member


    I'm with you on all your points. Trust me, I'm not training the way I do for aesthetic or to try to impress, I simply do it because I love it. The lean and fit look is just a positive side effect of our healthy lifestyle and training, which is awesome. Like you said, "My priority is to feel good and enjoy life". What I do to feel good and enjoy life might be different than what you do, different strokes for different folks as they say.



    Your other thread "CT is fasted state training" is very intriguing, I wonder what Dr.Kruse thinks of it, because it directly relates to what we are talking about here.



    Keep doing what you do man, it's working well for you and that's all that counts! :)



    Anyone else have any experience or input they'd like to share?
     
  15. Barry

    Barry New Member


    "different strokes for different folks"... exactly, use the principles, self experiment and find what works for you... sounds like your on the right track Steven, keep it up and keep optimizing ;-)
     
  16. FF_BC

    FF_BC New Member

    I've been doing heavy lifting in fasted state for about 4 months...



    I like to think of it as my body being in mTOR-mode or AMPk-mode. Everything just sort of snapped in to place when I realized that energy shortage (ATP
     
  17. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Factor X absolutely affected this pathway.......that you will realize as soon as I tell it to you all in Webinar in May
     
  18. Barry

    Barry New Member


    knew this all along, I am Factor-X ;-)
     
  19. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    you are a product of it.......and your life is proof that I might be on to something.........Factor X may make you realize why you are seeing your successes.
     
  20. Barry

    Barry New Member


    I think I know but I'll keep my lips sealed until the Webinar.... it possibly adds another dimension to CT too...
     

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