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Fasted State Training Adaptations

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Barry, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Barry

    Barry New Member

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, we are drowning in knowledge but starving of wisdom

    I think this sums up a lot in terms of where we are with modern human health and human performance. This lack of wisdom comes as a result of time, not enough of it. As time allows natural development through trail and error. Time also allows more intellectual study of the topic area and a more diverse spread of opinion and interpretation. Today we don't give time to things so we don't apply enough trail and error, the spread of opinion and interpretation is narrow, and the length of intellectual study is short. It also means that real life experiences are fewer. This means that real time observations are less. We therefore do not endure mistakes and nor suffer the consequences from them. In other words, we don't learn the hard way.

    But the data and the knowledge is there, so it must be right ?

    Must it ?

    I say no. And I am saying this from experience.

    I think what the human body needs in terms of health and performance is best understood through wisdom. This comes down to the workings of time but also from something else I have mentioned before, Skin in the Game.

    I keep coming back to this the more knowledge and data that is thrown about by experts and guru's.

    The very book, Skin in the Game, has a chapter that sums it all up very nicely in one go. Maybe those that swear by their knowledge and data need to read it. It goes like this:

    Antaeus was a giant, or rather a semi-giant of sorts, the literal son of Mother Earth, Gaea, and Poseidon, the god of the sea. He had a strange occupation, which consisted of forcing passersby in his country, Libya, to wrestle; his thing was to pin his victims to the ground and crush them. This macabre hobby was apparently the expression of filial devotion; Antaeus aimed at building a temple to his father, Poseidon, using for raw material the skulls of his victims.

    Antaeus was deemed to be invincible, but there was a trick. He derived his strength from contact with his mother, Earth. Physically seperated from contact with Earth, he lost all his powers. Hercules, as part of his twelve labors, had for homework to whack Antaeus. He managed to lift him off the ground and terminated him by crushing him as his feet remained out of contact with his mother, Earth.

    We retain from this first vignette that, just like Antaeus, you cannot seperate knowledge from contact with the ground. Actually, you cannot separate anything from contact with the ground. And the contact with the real world is done via skin in the game – having exposure to the real world, and paying the price for its consequences, good or bad. The abrasions on your skin guide your learning and discovery, a mechanism of organic signaling, what the Greeks call pathemata mathemata (“guide your learning through pain”) something mothers of children know very well. I have shown in Antifragile that most things that we believe were “invented” by universities were actually discovered by tinkering and later legitimized by some type of formalization. The knowledge we get by tinkering, via trail and error, experience, and the workings of time, in other words, contact with the earth, is vastly superior to that obtained through reasoning , something self-serving institutions have been very busy hiding from us.
    Pablo, Phosphene and Allin like this.
  2. Paul Fendler

    Paul Fendler New Member

    Have recently read both "Antifragile" and "Skin in the Game" and have been deeply affected by their message. Because of these books...I won't make any training recommendations I haven't tried extensively myself. In fact, I don't so much make recommendations as share my trial and error experiences.
    Corey Nelson likes this.
  3. Barry

    Barry New Member

  4. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Danco3636 likes this.
  5. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Danco3636 likes this.
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The test of life is the same. Now the data is new and answers more clear. #melanopsinwisdom
  7. Barry

    Barry New Member

    well we're still waiting for Bolt 100m record to be beaten by a second....

    and results that show VO2max increases with CT
  8. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    Has anyone totally embraced what Jack has said to do yet, connecting the dots? And I would assume it would need to come from someone that is already gifted with natural “speed” power. :)
    Allin and Sean Waters like this.
  9. Barry

    Barry New Member

    I have Dan... probably have embraced the dots more than most and for longer... going 8yrs now.

    Have I set world records ? no

    Yes, I have won some races at an amateur level and I have accomplished some big feats like running 200km fasted, low carb etc.

    But have guys that don't know anything about light, water and magnetism beaten me ? yes.....

    and do guys what win big races at elite level that don't follow Jacks (or mine) teachings... yes again.

    So ultimately, reaching extremely high performance does not equate solely to the laws of nature..... other factors prevail, those which are not essentially good for health and longevity... this is the conundrum
    Pablo, Danco3636 and Allin like this.
  10. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    Barry what's your CT all time best (coldest temp/ longest time submerged) ?
  11. Barry

    Barry New Member

    stupid question.. but I'll answer it this way...

    Wim Hof has the record for CT... but I would kick his ass in a marathon
    Danco3636 likes this.
  12. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    Stupid question........... Got the record for Arrogant Prick as well Barry?
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    LOL. Now boys settle down.
    Phosphene likes this.
  14. Barry

    Barry New Member

    even stupider come back...
  15. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    But now Wim doesn’t train specificly to run fast in a marathon (you do) but he did train for CT. The marathon was his free gains from CT and other dots. Though I think he misses many dots it still allows him to do some cool stuff.

    The results are in the demands that are imposed upon. Some results are from just doing the right things.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  16. sfast

    sfast New Member

    In case you missed it: I L Fahrenholtz, A Sjödin, D Benardot, Å B Tornberg, S Skouby, J Faber, J K Sundgot-Borgen, and A K Melin (2018): Within-day energy deficiency and reproductive function in female endurance athletes, Scand J Med Sci Sports 3, 2018, Vol. 28, S. 1139-1146.

    I use the within day deficit to track the intensity of fasting. I think that it is useful just up to a point where intermittent fasting meets just fasting (I suppose they meet at ~36h of just water).
  17. Barry

    Barry New Member

    What do marathon record holders do first thing in the morning ?

    Run fasted of course. All African runners are known to do this.

    They are probably the original Mitochondriacs too... what say you Jack ?

    “They go to bed when the sun goes down and they get up when the sun comes up and often go out and run immediately. For the remainder of the day they chill out. They don’t seem stressed about doing chores or going on social media. They switch off, relax, chat with their friends over a cup of tea. That doesn’t mean they’re any less serious about their training but they do take their recovery very seriously.”
  18. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    I believe most of them do a second session later in the day. Most likely before their last meal. AM sun and PM sun workouts.
  19. Barry

    Barry New Member

    A longevity farm for athletes just launched in the hills of Girona... A training camp on the 3 legged stool

    Attached Files:

    Sun Disciple likes this.
  20. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Ketone bodies are released after fasted exercise cause of increased levels of brain BDNF (a neuroprotective growth hormone) and neurotransmitters responsible for the anti-depressive and anti-anxiety effects of exercise. The amount of BDNF is increased with fasted training which is like fertilizer for brain recovery for all types of maladies.


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