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Fasted State Training Adaptations

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Barry, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Did 4 hours fasted training Barry......now eating about a pound of grilled lamb with home made sauce.
  2. Barry

    Barry New Member

    I sleep well, almost prioritise it over everything else.

    Its all about adaptations which are stimulated by everything. Then its about joining the dots. Nothing is more important than the other ;-)
    BrainWhisperer likes this.
  3. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Good work Jack, soon you'll be running with me ;-)
  4. Barry

    Barry New Member

    7-7.5hrs every night. Never sleep/nap during the day.

    Actually sleep less after big races (>50miles).. due to adrenal and sympathetic stress.... but no pain no gain ! ;-)
  5. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    What is your opinion for fasted state training, CT, keto for martial arts training. (I assume similar benefits to the longer endurance...although you did feel that it could be tougher with more 'intense' as in bursts and intensity work outs.) The amount of days training would be 3-5 depending on succesful recovery and schedule. Would be awesome to be able to train at least 5 days.

    Thanks for your opinion.
  6. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Totally achievable... it would depend a bit on the level at which you compete at. Still, for your sport its doable, .. its all about increasing your fat adaptation and metabolic effeciency. And how you do that is everything I have talked about in this thread and others !!
  7. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Training Update

    Set a record time for a new trail across the dublin mountains.

    Distance: 54km

    Time: 4.22hrs

    I did this in the most minimal fuel/carbs to date

    Day before - keto

    Breakfast: bacon/eggs

    Lunch: pulled pork/mixed veg

    Dinner: hake/mixed veg

    Event Day:

    Breakfast: freshly ground coffee, black.

    During: water, very little, 4 jelly babies (like clif shots)

    So I basically ate nothing on the day before or during. The 4 sweets were merely eaten to kill a bit of brain fog I was having. When you run long on empty, you do get brain glucose depletion. Recent studies have shown that rinsing the mouth with a carb drink and then spitting it out actually sends the same signal to the brain that it is "fed". So these sweets were not for "energy/calories".. simply just to keep the brain happy ;-)

    This is the most pre and during empty/non-fuelled I've ever been for something like this, and I felt strong and ran well.

    "in order for adaptations to occur, the stimulus must resonate"..... heard that today somewhere and liked it !
  8. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Training Update

    Ran 52miles in 10hrs over mountains in the Lake District UK.

    Day before: 2 meals

    1. creme fraiche, berries, mixed nuts

    2. bacon/veg omlette

    Training Day

    FST - no food before, only coffee

    During - 3 x homemade CO/Almond butter bars, 5x clif blocks

    Hit one low patch, battled through and came out the other side. Finished strong, and could have kept going !

    Big race coming up in 2 weeks - 100mile Lakeland District !

    "in order for adaptation to occur, the stimulus must resonate"
  9. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    Barry, Thanks for posting your updates. I like reading them.

    I have been working on Keto and fasting doing lifting, explosive movements, sprints and intermittent longer stuff through running, swimming or a bike ride. Not doing anything epic but seeing how strength levels progress with such model. I do some CT but not to aggressive right now..... Cold showers, jumps in cold rivers and some ice packs from time to time.

    Most all my workouts are done fasted.

    Right now I am not competing but really like the personal challenges and being healthy and moving well.

    Also been incororating some of the MovNat stuff and on trail runs. That has been fun and gives me an earthing/ grounding effect.
  10. This is a super interesting thread! I have been having my own interesting experiences with going paleo, IF, ketosis, etc. I started Paleo at end of April. I was curious how my muscles and body would react to running, swimming, martial arts, and biking...my staples of fitness. I also do a weight training put to music class 2x week (Power up or super fit are common names for this class style). During the month of May it was clear that my body was relearning how to fuel. About 4 weeks after eliminated grains and being low-carb (under 50 g/day), I took a 3.5 mile run and my muscles seized up into cramps, as if I'd been holding a tight muscle for several minutes. I stretched for about 3 minutes half-way through, and was fine for the rest of the run. Weight training continued to feel great, no difference really. Swimming started feeling easier, less fatigue, and I started getting several seconds faster on my speed drills. Martial arts difference was profoundly different. I felt lighter and faster. No muscle fatigue after long anaerobic stints. Big difference. Cycling was the only thing I was unable to do consistently due to time constraints. The first 2-hour ride I did felt fantastic. I did not have my usual desperate bonk feeling at end of ride. I live at the top of a hill, and it's always the hardest part of my rides, but I breezed it. That first ride was in a fasted state, as well.

    Last Thursday I ate two meals only -- breakfast and lunch, under 35 g/carbs total. Took a 1-hour bike ride that evening. No dinner. Friday morning woke and took a 3-hour trail run over big mountain, and down long ridge. No snacks as I hadn't planned to go that far, but once I got to the top of the mountain, I felt so good, I decided to go for it. I was almost 30 minutes faster than the last time I'd done that run, which was a couple years ago! I hadn't run that far in many, many months. Soaked in cold water for 1-hour post run, almost no soreness the next day!

    I've had a few days in the past several months where my carb intake has been greater than 150, so I wonder if that "ruins" my ability to adapt ketogenically for a few days or longer. How long does it take for one to be truly keto-adapted?

    I'm very curious to see how I progress. I'm not much of a distance runner, a half marathon being my longest distance. But I'm very interested in doing a half-ironman in a couple years, assuming I can pull all my variable together. I'm a female, so I wonder what carb intake levels would be for me, and how would I even figure that out?

    This is all so interesting!
  11. Barry

    Barry New Member

    No way to give you a direct answer as it depends on your make up and how your body works. The only person that truly knows that is you !

    There is no specific cho number and there is no specific keto timing. The most important thing you need to realise is that it takes time to build the machinery , the more time , the better.

    So you simple have to continuously do all the things that trigger the adaptations from PPAR to CTP-1 to UCP-3

    There is no single determinant , it's power in numbers !
    BrainWhisperer likes this.
  12. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Race Update

    100mile Lakeland District UK

    Day before race ; keto

    Race Day:

    Breakfast- duck eggs + bacon

    Lunch: duck eggs + bacon

    Snack : creme fraiche + almond butter + banana

    Race: 5.30pm start

    Ran through the night over mountains , fed on pro/fat foods with hits of glucose. No sports drinks used , just water and salt.

    Result :

    Finished 2nd in 22.01hrs . 3rd fastest ever recorded time. 3.5hrs faster than my time last year for the same course

    "behind the walls of intelligence , life is defined "
  13. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    Go Barry! Woot!
  14. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Anna - 3yrs
  15. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Congrats, Barry! You are super cool for doing this experiment and documenting it. I think more athletes could benefit from your experience.

    I am so glad to see your response as well as other people's experiences regarding keto and martial arts training. I shall be full and ready for next month when I start training again! IT'S BEEN A WHOLE YEAR, WOW I MISSED IT!

    Also, in light of the emphasis on seafood epi-paleo from Jack, have you started to incorporate more seafood/fish into your diet? I've only been doing this for a few weeks now and I think I am really starting to see the benefits! I am excited to enter in karate this time around with the armed information I now have. I will be better, stronger and lighter!
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I just did a consult with a marathoner who is changing his whole diet to this regimen.
  17. Barry

    Barry New Member

  18. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Thanks Gladina , epi-paleo is not directly related to performance although I have increased my seafood and sea veg.. Still, you can fat adapt without having mackerel smoothies every morning ;-) best of luck
  19. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Whats his goal finishing time ?
  20. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    cut ten minutes of his PR.

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