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Fasted State Training Adaptations

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Barry, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Penny

    Penny New Member

    No idea, but they were probably running outside in the sun a lot:) I wonder if it would hold true in a basketball player in MN? To Danco... this is me except in addition to looking at every flower I behold, I also have to smell them:)
  2. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Potentially. But more related to glucagon and gluconeogensis
    kris90 likes this.
  3. Barry

    Barry New Member

    other signs of being connected:

    - a la Dan, yes, always prefer to pee outside (not just in the morning) even if there is an option to pee indoors

    - a disregard for material things

    - in winter, still wanting to do CT

    - no matter how many times you CT, I mean outdoors in sea,lakes, river,... ..... always having anxiety and a friendly fear... but a lust for both

    - having tried every CT - ice bath, river, lake, shower etc...... feeling that the best CT is the sea

    - going for a 6hr run in the mountains with nothing

    - feeling better barefoot on the grass is better than concrete

    - Feeling better the less people there are around

    - Feeling your best when you are by the sea and close to the mountains
    caroline and Danco3636 like this.
  4. malc0088

    malc0088 4th dimension

    Love this 'Signs of being Connected'

    - barefoot run with no shirt and tiny running shorts in bright sun

    - jumping into the local lake to CT any time of year - and getting strange looks or ignorant comments like 'hows the water?' with a sarcastic remark - reminds me when my action makes others uncomfortable i'm headed in the right direction.

    - having a sense of urgency to get outside and strip down to reconnect when i've been indoors too long

    - the constant draw to natural running water, rocks, and grass on my exposed skin

    - best CT ever at 9k ft. in snowmelt river in full spectrum sun, fully submerged is a serious invigorating shot of life.

    - grilling some fish and veggies outside as the sun sets...feeling of fullness and completeness
    caroline, Barry and Danco3636 like this.
  5. Barry

    Barry New Member

    okay, saving the best for last...... being connected:

    - you can tell the time without wearing a watch

    - you prefer the suffering in every aspect of life, acute that is.

    - you are drawn to the color purple

    - you cannot hold your smartphone in your hand for too long

    - eating a "light" meal never really happens. You either eat well or you don't

    - each day, you find it more and more difficult to live in the modern world

    - your sport is not done for numbers, distances asthetic purposes or even accomplisments. The priority for you is simply to be outdoors in nature

    Finally, this for me is how it all clicks together:

    you meet someone, and become close to them, be it a friend, a spouse, a relation or a neighbour...... and you find out that they have never heard of Becker, Ling, Pollack, Lane, Marino..... or even Kruse or Murray...

    yet, they are doing almost all the shit I have just listed without even thinking about it

    I rest my case.
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
    Danny, HenrikB, Linz and 2 others like this.
  6. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Yes ....all of the above! When I met my partner 3 years ago - he had never heard about Jack Kruse! He was doing so much right by instinct.

    I just can't figure out how to get the house even moderately clean because I want to be outside all the time!

    Being away with our camper trailer is a huge game changer - outside from sunrise to sunset. Just throw some shrimp and salmon on the barbie.

    I now hate shopping malls and crowds of people with a passion ....being out in the bush is a priority ....and being in the ocean is the biggest priority of all.

    One downside [I suppose] .....I am running out of patience for those who cant be bothered to even give it a go ...... I need to use my time much more wisely now.

    Now that I know better .....I can and will do so much better.
    Danny and Linz like this.
  7. kris90

    kris90 New Member

    It's true. I've always loved camping and outdoors. I would be one of the only ones going up to a cottage who enjoyed not having cell reception, and took full advantage of spending the entire day outdoors, in the sun and swimming in the lake, exploring islands barefoot, cliffdiving, fishing, and enjoying water sports, and then of course bonfires at night.

    I always had an enhanced sense of wellbeing during a weekend at the cottage, and then upon returning back to the city, it was gone. I never really thought much of it, only that I knew I felt good, but wasn't sure why. And now I know.

    I'm glad I moved to the country. I have that feeling every evening when I get home from work, and on weekends. Only thing missing is waterfront, but I'm only a 5 min drive from the river.
  8. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Race Update

    So I'm racing shorter stuff now, ~10-20km mountain trail.

    Race series I am currently doing takes place every Wed night. 7.30pm.

    These races are up a mountain and down, full gas. I am racing well , finishing in top 1o usually.

    I am still LCHF/Ketotic/IF/SITG/Dots Connected etc.

    However, sleep is destroyed after these races. Finish is usually 8.30pm, return home 9.30-10pm.

    Body feels like it has just been in mild trauma, and going to sleep is difficult.

    Never asked this before in the 5yrs I have been blogging..... but

    Any suggestions ?? (bear in mind I know the real answer is to not do these races, but thats not what I'm looking for)
    malc0088 likes this.
  9. Ski coach

    Ski coach Gold

    After an overly long ski day and late return home, I find mild CT helps me both recover a bit and calm down. By mild I mean maybe 20 minutes with cool fat burner or a few minutes in a 60 to 65 degree tub. If I know it is going to be one of those days, I might even take a bunch of icepacks and put them on my legs and knees in the car for the drive home.
    Danny likes this.
  10. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Tried that numerous times..... usually cold river after race
  11. malc0088

    malc0088 4th dimension

    Maybe it has to do with sympathetic activation being ramped up at the time melatonin should be secreted. i'll make some traditional kava root, turmeric, black pepper, or valerian to aid in slowing my mind down (the endorphins after the race typically can cause me to stay awake somewhat). I close my eyes in bed and all i see is the trail and the constant alertness of dodging obstacles (i've been known to jerk my body in bed). i wear blue blockers after dark and when i'm driving home (the headlights can really jack up my sleep). i too like to use cold after races and before bed, massage, and getting in a decent meal all aid in proper sleep for me.
    Barry likes this.
  12. Paul Fendler

    Paul Fendler New Member


    No suggestions. I never was able to sleep after evening race. Not once. Elevating legs helped me feel better but still couldn't sleep. 7:30PM is pretty late for an effort that hard.

    If I was ever in that situation again...things I might try would be stuff like the following: lying on the ground, avoid going to bed until tired, activities that stimulate parasympathetic nervous system....breathing, meditation, walking. I'm sure you've tried all kinds of things.

    PS It pains me to say it but...you were so right about the Quantlet. Downfall.
    Barry likes this.
  13. Barry

    Barry New Member

  14. Barry

    Barry New Member

    as Paul mentioned too, it is all about ramping the sympathetic system down.

    I've done CT in rivers and lakes before post race... but also sea , at night, a couple of times, and remember sleeping well. Might have to get in post race at night and see.
  15. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    interested in what you discover.
  16. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

  17. htw

    htw New Member

    I am also KETO 2 years and HFLC for about 2-3 years. My peersonal expirience is when I am training HARD and LONG (2h streight 5x5 for glycogen depletion) and I have one day for rest before this trainig I have to eat more high-glycemic carb pre and poste workout. I tried a lot of sfuff - D-RIBOSIS and others - fenugreek but my sleep was crappy (I have cortisol PEAK at 2 at night) . I knew that for keto adapted person advice eat some carb is trivial advice but in my expirince ony working.
    Other days my sleep is brilient, my eyes are closing automaticly (9-10), red glasses works - SCN is key, but one day I have to carb up little I assume for faster glycogen resynthesis.
    Sean Waters likes this.
  18. Barry

    Barry New Member

    you know what, sometimes the solution is staring us in the face and we try to overcomplicate an already complex subject

    I have been, in my quest of fat adaptation almost stubbornly refusing carbs.

    With what I know these days, its not the carbs per se.

    But for this purpose, lowering cortisol/parasympathetic responses, I think you could be right so I will give this a try.

    I see athletes today destroying themselves with a zero carb approach, I was one of them too. But the keto world and the zero carb zealots are completely misdirecting people
  19. htw

    htw New Member

    KETO for athletic performance is great, in normal scenario, I would say 90-95%, but there is this 5-10%. You are fat adapted so you are metabolically flexible so you can experiments with glucose in your personal context.
    malc0088 and Sean Waters like this.
  20. malc0088

    malc0088 4th dimension

    carbs post race/hard workout + CT (cold river, pool, ice vest) = happy sleep :)

    I've definitely been a zero carb guy and got bit in the butt by it...felt like crap. I tend to struggle (generally speaking) with balance. I've decided (after a tibial stress fracture this past winter (incredibly overtrained during the late summer/fall 2016, low libido, poor thyroid function, burn out) that I need to loosen the grip on being strict with my trail running training programming and prioritize my energy to the following.
    1. light/water/magnetism
    2. emotional/spiritual/social practices to maintain life balance
    3. training - when 1&2 are getting the energy they deserve i'm finding i don't need to train as often and i'm a lot less prone to burn out.

    I took 3 months off from running and I've refocused my energy, routines, and education (when you know better, you do better) on light, water, magnetism. here are a few changes though a lot are 2nd nature and are automatic.
    1. prioritized AM sun seeking, grounding, qi gong routine. Prioritize noon sun (get out of the office), and spend 2-4 hours in the afternoon/PM sun.
    2. blocking blue light at all times while indoors or on tech, and keep up on my hydration.
    3. Dminder tracking - my goals used to involve hours or miles per week, and are now hours per week in the sun or hitting 100% of my UV requirement for the day.
    4. less time sedentary after dinner (go walk, swim, read outside) or watching the latest Cycling tour races outdoors.
    5. Regular social engagement with friends who are invested in my life
    6. recognition that running 3-4 50k-50 mile races per spring/fall is not conducive to all the efforts i'm putting into my health. (new goal: 1 ultra per spring/fall in the mountains, more social cycling events and short 5-10k trail racing)
    7. Having a monthly book challenge with my wife ( we are reading 'going somewhere by Dr. Marino' outloud in 30 days (15 pages per day) outside) we will do a new book together each month to 'know better, do better'. I couldn't help but crack open 'cross currents by dr. becker' because there are so many overlaps. both men are amazing writers.
    8. Some kind of CT everyday: face dunks, cold river, or cold pool plunge
    9. Bulk order oysters so i can eat 10 per day without breaking the bank.
    10. after all of that, run or cycle with intensity based on my morning HRV score.

    My ah-ha with nature and training: I don't need to call upon my Will when it comes to connecting with nature, it's like my body/mind already know what to do, but the last 3 years of ultra running i've been relying on my will (in many cases forcibly) too much to try to meet some training/racing expectation, fill some void (while red flag after red flag warning), that only leaves me drained and broken. 1-9 is now filling the void completely, and 10 is now more enjoyable than ever (more fitness with less training).

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