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Fasted State Training Adaptations

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Barry, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Linz

    Linz Gold

    And the reason colitis is less common in smokers too! Nicotine patches make a big difference to symptoms.
  2. Barry

    Barry New Member

  3. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

  4. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

  5. ssj3

    ssj3 Silver

    This reads very similar to my experience.

    I had survived for years on a keto diet (eventually a story for my optimal journal to put in context) but not when supporting high volume/intensity/density weight training. But when I switched to a keto diet again, I didn’t adjust for many factors (loss of calories specifically one - I actually wanted to test the calories don’t matter spin) and training really suffered. Also, my labs tanked, couldn’t sustain let alone add muscle, body comp worsened and I was starting to have to take days off due to poor recovery.

    Now about 8 months in, consuming a lot more fat, a few more carbs (about 50-70 grams a day) and about 800-1000 calories per day more, things are starting to turn good. Leaner with weight up about 4kg. Now I don’t know if this is just the calories as I did start doing other things like eating oysters or muscles nearly daily, infrared therapy, 8-10 hours of sleep, etc.

    Still some bio-hacking to do as recovery and ability to maintain intensity still needs to improve, but I like where this is going.
    Albert83BCN likes this.
  6. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Low Carb and even duration are just small parts of the jigsaw here. I've mentioned this before but its not about what you eat, its about how you live. Then the inner workings of the cell are found in the quantum physics as opposed to the biology or physiology. I don't know all the theory but I do know some and I know more about the practice.

    So if a ketotic state is optimal for performance - neocortical neurons, electron flow, photons etc...... what I'm saying is that the practice is far more difficult to apply than the theory

    here's a post from another thread where I discuss this:

    Context 4: elite athlete, competing not just for fun but to win, at a high standard, national/world class level

    Do they need PPP and can they access it ?

    The first part of this question , I'm still on the fence. We simply have nothing to go on other than theory. Am I in PPP and winning races ? I can't say.... I'm winning some races but so is the dude on a SAD diet. If Jack starts winning world championship events, at any sport, in PPP and epi-paleo/CT etc, even if its N=1, then I'll buy into it more. But for now, and I;m not a reductionist, all we have is a hypothesis.
    Are olympic gold medallists, marathon world record holders, Tour de France champions etc.... are these type of athletes in PPP ? nowhere near.... and I work in this game so I personally know a lot about these type of athletes. Many of them wouldn't even know what a ketone is. However, what I will say, is that this level of athlete, with their type of living and training, genetics and physiology..... are upregulating and activating many of the pathways that are being discussed here without them even knowing it.

    Finally, the second part, possibly the main subject of the debate, can these type of athletes access it ? .... .... as I mentioned, this PPP system still needs more study both theoretically and clinically. Lets assume it does work and can be accessed.

    Well, it comes down to what was mentioned in sjoshua's post. Everything needs to be in smooth working order. The right dots need to be in place, the dots need to be connected, and then everything has to work in harmony.

    So lets say you're an elite athlete, going to the next world championships or olympic games. First up, you have to travel to get to the destination. Flights, EMF's, maybe poor food. You then are put up in a hotel. More EMFs, maybe poor sleep, no perfect keto/epi-paleo foods available, no where near grass, mountains or sea. Outcome - semiconductors, inner mitchondrial membranne, electron flow, cell signalling, etc etc... downregulated........... what happens ? you simply don't feel as well and don't perform as well.

    It all comes down to a very simple thing. The real world is not set up for optimal living. Perfection is not achievable. Therefore embrace the imperfection. Don't try to be the best, just try to be better. Apply that to everything in life.

    People here are worrying themselves about something that possibly doesn't work in the muscle cell from a energy production point of view, and if it does, they don't actually need it, but more importantly, it is practically unattainable in the modern world.

    I'm off for a beer............
    sjoshua, Albert83BCN and Josh like this.
  7. colt

    colt Gold


    Attached Files:

    Josh likes this.
  8. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Weak Chimps and Slow Dogs...Fun nevertheless and an opportunity to explore limits and plasticity. How much disorder/entropy can you return to the environment how fast and at what cost???? The most efficient triumphs at the physical level, and what is the cost to adaptation with immunity and cognition/brain function/consciousness....
  9. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    Thanks Barry for your posts. They are always helpful and insightful.

    I am still pursuing my n=1 and seeing where the limitations are for myself using most of the info Jack talks about.
  10. Barry

    Barry New Member

    some of you may have seen this paper by Ray Cronise


    In affect, the key components that it states that are needed for health and longevity are AMPK, mTOR, IGF-1,SIRT-1, PGC-1, BAT, UCP-1

    What does Fasted State Training/Fat Adaptation do ? just read the first page of this blog.... BOOM !
    Albert83BCN likes this.
  11. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    I like the last paragraph:
    Our 7-million-year evolutionary path was dominated by
    two seasonal challenges—calorie scarcity and mild cold stress.
    In the last 0.9 inches of our evolutionary mile, we solved them
    both. Refrigeration and transportation have fundamentally
    changed the food to which we have access and the environ-
    ments in which we live. We also sleep less and are exposed to
    considerably more artificial light, particularly in the winter
    months. Obesity and chronic disease are seen most often in
    people and the animals (pets) they keep warm and over-
    nourished. Similar to the circadian cycle and like most other
    living organisms, it is reasonable to believe we also respond to
    the seasons and carry with us the survival genes for winter.
    Maybe our problem is that winter never comes.
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    But Ray does not link cold to electrons.......and he advocates a diet that reduces NAD+ which proper circadian cycling needs.........so his idea is great but his execution is horrendous. http://caloriesproper.com/?p=4884

    Moreover, his hypothesis has no place for the energy from the EZ of water..........
  13. colt

    colt Gold

    Wait a minute…….Doc explain this quick. Whats the mechanism? Whats the protocol? How often?

    I have an idea for you Barry to increase performance.......try a nicotine patch right before the race. It is a trick I used with one of the NFL players I did some work with an injury.
  14. Barry

    Barry New Member

    thats why I recommend a high fat diet to increase NAD+ and all of the adaptations that you get from cold, you get from fasted state training also, which I've already explained in a previous post
    Danco3636 likes this.
  15. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Barry you and I do agree........Ray however has some crazy diet ideas to marry to cold..........and that is why he and I differ in a big way. Calories proper blog linked above show how NAD+ and sirt 1 control circadian biology
    Danco3636 likes this.
  16. sjoshua

    sjoshua New Member

    The mechanism is bending cellular time slightly. You're tricking your cells into working a little faster than normal by changing their reality. (similar to overclocking a computer - it was still designed to work at the native speed, but if you can keep the entropy to a minimum and control the environment the semiconduction is occurring in, then you can achieve faster processing from the same device)

    This will only work if your cells can handle the bend though.... i.e. you need a healthy redox

    The protocol is simply attaching the patch to the skin to deliver the nicotine slowly. The only time you'd want to do this is when in a race-type environment where you are on the clock... cause, you are 'overclocking' your cells.
    Albert83BCN likes this.
  17. colt

    colt Gold

    Increasing all performance
  18. sjoshua

    sjoshua New Member

    Or, crashing and burning sooner and harder than ever...

    Redox matters :)
  19. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    Just an update of what I did today and to keep this thread alive.

    Early AM wake up with grounding, and CT - running around naked after cold shower and ice packs on..... Allows me to do some outside gardening. :)

    Then after coffee & green tea......

    ★ー An hour of mobility & core work via Ido Portal coaching.

    Pre was a warm up of some HIIT running & MovNat warmup. - my 15 minute fat burning session.

    Post was some Fluid Body Movement......

    ー All while fasted...... Breakfast only slows me down

    Going to make this another day in the life of a "Superhuman Life".

    Now off to work.....

    - Dan
    caroline likes this.
  20. Barry

    Barry New Member

    I'm fasting from technology as much as I am from food these days... I think the adaptations are actually greater...

    But I'll try to also keep this thread going :

    Race Update: A mountain ultramarathon, 73Km, 5000m climb. Race start: Midnight

    So a couple of things to share here. This was a relatively "short" race for me but with the midnight start, and big mountain climbs with a finish at a ski resort, its a hard race.

    Race Day:

    First thing, early morning, fasted, I ran 30mins barefoot, then sat down in a river, not CT, its hot summer now, but more for grounding. I ate 3 meals before this race, no snacks, Breakfast was eggs. lunch was suasage/bacon and dinner was fatty pork chops/veggies. Took a 45min nap in the evening , in the garden on the grass. Brewed a fresh coffee at 11pm... race start then at 12pm.

    It rained. Not cold. Its Italy. Just a proper summer storm, thunder/lightening, heavy downpours. I wore just shorts and a t-shirt. I ran the first few hours easy, no hunger or need to eat. Despite the time , darkness and running during what are "sleeping" hours, I felt great. Rain continued but the more I got soaked, the better I felt. As we ran through the forests and mountain trail, I even made sure to put my hands through as much of the greenery as I could to wet myself even more.

    Reached the 40km mark and the first signs of daylight appeared. However, due to the weather and visability, the high peaks were deemed too dangerous and the course was re-routed. This reduced the distance to 55km and also missed out on the big mountain sections. I ran then full gas for the remaining 15km. Arrived at the finish in 10th, in just over 7hrs, but only minutes behind the next 4-5 athletes. Given another 15-20km with more difficult terrain and I felt like I would have been very close to a podium spot. During this 7hrs of running, I ate very little, some pieces of fruit, some cheese/cold meat, some coffee and just water... no gels, sports drinks or bars.

    Always difficult to pin-point what makes your performance better.... but my take-outs from this are - fasting, earthing/grounding, fats and rain/electrons

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