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Everyone, please read, someone has hacked Dr. Kruse's Fcebook account:

Discussion in 'Cold Thermogenesis' started by MJ*, May 16, 2012.

  1. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    LOL, Ruby, so it seems, our own Dr. Kruse included. I mean, do humble people make blogs where they can share their own opinions with the world? Sometimes, but not often.

    It's been amusing reading about bongo59 (yes, Dr. Kruse, we know it's you), but seriously, they're making a case that because he's a big-headed football lover who doesn't want his real name to get out, and who has at least as many people loving his football posts as hating them, that he's also a pathological liar? (How many of us have ever tried to stay anonymous on the internet? Is this really an expose? Please.)

    And because Jack didn't give Richard *all* the details of his CT at the time of the phone call, that means he's a liar? How many of us (Richard, Chloe, Evelyn, and all the rest of the gang included) have ever withheld information while making what we did tell true, for what we believed was a good reason?

    Stop me if I'm wrong, but does anyone remember Jack claiming to have done sub-freezing CT at all prior to this alleged post, much less for 8 months almost two years ago?

    And let's imagine he IS a pathological exaggerator and/or liar ... does that change the facts he's spewing about health? I've checked them ALL (the ones that have been relevant to me), in numerous external sources, and not found one to be wrong yet. (Finding out he's a pathological maniac would certainly change my approach and use of his website, but it wouldn't discredit the information itself. And no, claiming his inside info on Phelps is a lie without proof to the contrary doesn't prove you right, nor does "proving" he's "lying" about the FBI by citing ... Melissa.)

    This has never been about Jack Kruse for me. He's a generous guy with a big head giving me a lot of guidance that I appreciate. I hope he's not also an idiot, but that doesn't change the good he's done for me.

    I've been thinking about cult stuff, and remembered that I was once involved in an organization that was accused of being a cult. The problem was that the leader was your typical megalomaniac, but almost none of the people working with this organization had ever met him or had much exposure even to media about him. They were involved because it was an amazing charitable organization doing amazing good work - that no one could doubt. It turned out he was a pedophile. A truly horrifyingly bad person. But the work of the organization had never been about him - AT ALL. Still, people outside the org who did know the founder decided that everyone working with it must be cult groupies, all brainwashed minions doing his bidding, simply because of association. The fact was, HE founded the group and started the amazing charitable work, even though he was a horrible person. The people were doing the work because of the work, not at all because of him, but they were still accused of being mindless minions.

    The fact is, MOST people are sheep. Society wouldn't work well if that wasn't the case. And what I found then, and find now, is that the people crying "KOOLAID DRINKERS!" are just as sheep-y as the people allegedly drinking the koolaid, in both these particular cases. (Are there true cults? almost certainly. I'm distinguishing between those with true brainwashing (gradual elimination of the ability to think outside of what one is told) and those where people are just accused of it.) The people attacking Kruse have from the beginning engaged in childish, shrill behavior, in this case actually far more grouplike stupidity than those listening to him. They dogpile, they parrot, they don't engage in reasoned analysis, and that's why those listening to Kruse are unlikely to listen to them.

    Well, there ARE legitimate criticisms of our "fearless leader," just as we all have legitimate criticisms of ourselves. How many of them are true, it's hard to know for sure. The question is, which are just character flaws, which discredit his ability to be a mentor to paleo patients, and which eliminate the credibility of any word out of his mouth at all?

    Yes, he's Bongo. Yes, he has a big head and feeds off of people fawning over him - as mentioned by many of his critics, this is typical surgeon behavior. No, I SERIOUSLY doubt most of the rest of the accusations are true - stupid stuff like placing the Lance call, making up the surgery, trying to pass that picture off as himself, blah blah blah. If it is, we each need to know how that would change our looking to him for guidance or information, and be honest about it, not wistful. Overall, we do owe it to ourselves to keep our minds open, but that doesn't mean so far open our brains fall out, in either direction. Everyone read, think rationally and critically, decide what matters as far as how flawed a guru can be before you refuse to listen to him at all, look at your own personal results, check EVERYthing against other factual references (including history & anthropology), use caution, do what works for you, go with your gut, and good grief, maybe now that FTA is off the boat everyone will just ignore Kruse for a while and we can get on with healing our bodies with his good advice as we were already doing.

    No doctor has ever changed my health this way. Ever.
  2. Andrés

    Andrés New Member

    @MamaGrok: I completely agree. It can't be said more clearly. Every time one of us has scratch the scant research looking for something like a refutation to Dr. Kruse's ideas, we have found support for them.

    Brilliant exposition.
  3. ruby

    ruby New Member

    wow, MamaGrok, that's more than I ever expected, thank you!:eek:

    And I tend to agree with you.

    I think the most important thing is, as you say, "Everyone read, think rationally and critically, decide what matters (...), look at your own personal results, check EVERYthing against other factual references (...), do what works for you, go with your gut..". And use commonsense, which as somebody already pointed out, is not that common, unfortunately.

    So I read all the lamentations on various blogs about how Jack is going to damage the "movement", bring misery and suffering to people with his advice, which the biggest fault they could find with was that it was not his originally, but "stolen" (I mean did he really "steal" the idea of ice/snow baths from that Russian granny? is she upset and gonna sue? - video link on his FB). Come to think of it, did NASA invent the cold?

    So after reading the lamentations and thinking about what I have gotten out of his blog and how could his advice possibly damage me (I don't care about the "movement" cos I will never be part of it, having a strong aversion to proselytizing and organized "religion" of any kind), I conclude that the overall balance is on the "+" side. I'd say most of my personal benefits came from his pointers rather than actual direct advice and a big chunk came from intelligent people's comments here. It may be because of my circumstances - I was never obese, only a bit overweight years ago, so I was never desperate enough to dive head on into any miraculous diet/lifestyle offered by a guru, no questions asked. I chanced upon his blog looking for health tweak ideas and I got them. From multiple sources in here, as I said above.

    I don't agree all surgeons have inflated egos - I have several in my own close family and they are rather humble people and too busy publishing and researching stuff to run a blog and answer questions about numb toes (btw, it is NOT veiled criticism, Jack). However, as far as Paleo egos go, after the last few days of reading other people's stuff, I'm blown away by how far Jack lags behind in that department, though he is certainly way above average compared with the general population.

    But that's ok, because I am not looking here for a guru or even somebody to develop my willpower with Adobe.
  4. @mamag. Nice!

    The funny thing to me with all the nit-picky and somewhat irrelevant criticism, is the underlying assumption that we care. GOOD FRIGGIN GOD, He's my age, I've been on the internets since THEY WERE INVENTED. Do I have some cyber**** out there I would die of embarrassment from? You betcha. I've done things I pray my child never ever finds out about. Do I evaluated myself today by that? Nope, and since my current self evaluations put me firmly in the "good" side - I recognize that other people can and do move on from actions and incidents in their life. If you are not failing, you are not moving forward!

    By the mere fact that there is a identifiable "group" of people who think WE idolize JK and he's our GURU tells way more about them, than us. If he were a guru or god, then we very well may be devastated to find out he was bongo. As it is, I don't care because I don't elevate my relationship with Jack (or lack thereof) to something where he is letting me down by comments on football. Football is for idiots. So, I suppose that does lessen Jack in my preferences - but do I dismiss every idea because of that?

    If this all turns to ****, I'll be let down - sure. But it won't be Jack that caused it or is responsible for it.

    And since we've got him naked here to inspect (thank god it's not you and me under this judgemental eye right?) about the sanctionsfrom court. . Again, all context. If you've ever EVER been party to this kind of proceeding you know that being in a room (it's never tv like) and answering questions that get documented and turned and the records just never seem to reflect what I remember the reality was. And again, so irrelevant to the information I'm getting from him now.

    Guess what, as a critical thinker and an EXPERT observer of human behavior - he's a bigger than life personality full of exaggeration to make his points. He's the more charasmatic and outgoing version of you. I guarantee he's not sitting there plotting some little mis-direction to make you freezerburn a patch of your fat tummy. I mean really.
  5. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    Ruby, one of the silliest things I've seen is how the same people who say, "He's dangerous" say the next minute, "He says nothing new; he got it from everyone else."

    Which is it, folks?

    Clearly not all surgeons have god complexes. But they don't have that reputation for no reason. It's all too common, although certainly not universal. Again, the same people who said, "Surgeons are known for their megalomaniacal personalities" failed to notice that either that discredits most surgeons or none of them. It can't be used as an argument against only one of them, but that didn't stop folks from trying.

    I agree with your sentiments about proselytizing and thinking this has to be some movement. I got into paleo because the science pointed me that way. I hope others find their way to the same facts, because facts is facts, and it will help them. If they ask me, I'll point them that way, but I'm not ever going to push it on anyone. Nor will I push my love or hatred for any one person on anyone. That's all disrespectful of our autonomy and dignity.
  6. Chrisgraff

    Chrisgraff New Member


    Newton didn't invent gravity, just explained it better than anyone else.
  7. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    Ah yes, that reminds me. DH tells me that he has never ever had an expert witness not misspeak while being deposed. Never. Normally that doesn't result in sanctions, but the possibility that it was an excuse for a CW bunch of docs to slap the hand of someone bucking the norm is so strong that I have to take that into account. I'd love for doc to clear this up, one way or the other, but I have never been someone to think the worst of ANYone until he (or someone else with documented proof, not innuendo) forces my hand.
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Today you will find out why the Paleo diet is selected for by evolution for all mammals.........so far I have seen no one say that. Factor X points directly to it. I did not invent that either.......I just realized it at the foot of a statue.
  9. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    ...........read your PM Cavemam and Momma grok
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I like how you put this all together, much in the same way I did but was not able to express it at this time.

    Infact, my opinion of him has not changed a bit. He's human and @Cavemam is correct, who hasn't done things or said things in their life they never want brought up to them? Or god forbid their children would find out. Sometimes, I am haunted by by the memory of my past actions, but I have learned from them.

    I love how this group does seem to be the most level headed group on the net. Pretty awesome!!!
  11. tercay@yahoo.com

    tercay@yahoo.com New Member

    All I know is Dr Kruse has made more sense and helped me regain my health. That is where the rubber hits the road!
  12. Birdy

    Birdy New Member

    Thank you MamaGrok and others, for your posts. Someone needs to stand up to the childish bullies.
  13. finnite@dccnet.com

    finnite@dccnet.com New Member

    MamaG and Cavemam, nicely said and it echos I think what many `followers`are thinking I know it reflects many of the things I have thought about JK.

    As many have said here, on the blog and elsewhere the biggest concern is that the kerfuffle about Jack`s personality will overshadow and somehow minimize the message. As Marshall McLuhan said in 1964 `The medium is the message`

    Truth be told Jack Kruse reminds me strongly of another Jack, Jackie Chan. Both have very large egos, need the constant feedback from fans, have to be the leader in their field and in the public eye, HATE being told what to do by others, even those with the best of intentions in mind, both have stated in public that they have few regrets in life and don`t care what people say about them, then they say things that make their fans/followers scratch their heads and wonder `did he really mean to say THAT? does he really want that posted on the net?` (I heard this multiple times from JC`s webmaster when he had an English blog, somehow I imagine the JK MM mutter the same thing :cool:), they receive regular criticism from opponents who don`t like the confident attitude and absolute certainty these men project, controversy follows these guys like a dog after a bone, both are Aries btw.

    work is play to these men so a 70+ hour week is taking it easy and both have some strange obsession with long hair on women :rolleyes: and yet both are also incredibly philanthropic, willing to give time, money or expertise to support what they believe in.

    JC`s manager was asked to sum up his charge in a single sentence once and the response was simple: `he is mostly a good man`

    I believe this to be true of Jack Kruse as well

    but I will say, full well knowing this is likely to be dimissed, that JK need better handlers to help him refine his medium to a certain extent if he doesn`t want the message marginalized by his detractors.

    just my $0.02
  14. AKMan

    AKMan New Member

    Does this saga remind anyone else of my old neighbor--Sarah Palin? Let's consider this Jack's vetting by the lamestream media.

  15. hehe no kidding. This is probably the reason good and well qualified people don't go into politics. Why we have choice suck and suckier. Who in their right mind wants to go through that? You can't actually do good and help people in that situation. Frankly, I'd be a little scared of the lack of world experience from someone who behaved perfect their entire life.
  16. indigogirl

    indigogirl Silver

    Well said MamaGrok, Cavemam and Ruby!
  17. Jim

    Jim New Member

    Groan...I try and focus on the GOOD. Jack is very good at synthesizing disparate bits of data and seemingly conflicting theories into a coherent whole. He is laying the foundation for a practical theory the lay person can wrap their heads around. Like others (MamaGrok, Cavemam, etc.) I find that I am learning a tremendous amount about my body that is terrifically helpful to me. Like most others here I fact check, as best I am able, what he says with others I respect (Robb Wolf, Mark Sisson, Art DeVany, etc) and have found no major inconsistencies. All of this for only the price of a cookbook (because that is all I am into this with Jack - for now until the book comes out). Think about that one for a second...why in the hell would anyone buy a cookbook from a neurosurgeon...ha ha...???

    Anyway, you have to take everyone as they are - the whole person! For me this has been a very positive relationship. Until he starts disseminating information that doesn't work for me, I'll continue to knowingly ignore the distractions and keep "drinking the cool aid" with lots of ice of course!!!
  18. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member


    I don't have one yet!


    Back to the koolaid stuff ... if y'all haven't read the origin of that phrase, do. It is horrifying what it refers to. I'm sick and tired of people casually using "drink the koolaid" to refer to listening to anyone at all with a charismatic personality. It's like accusing everyone who is generous of buying his friends, but much worse, because the story behind it really is horrific. This is not something that should be tossed around casually.

    BTW, from my experience with that other group, the more you accuse people with rational minds of drinking the koolaid, the more they tune out even your valid criticisms, because they KNOW they're not mindless minions, so they assume you're wrong about everything else, too. Rational arguments are much more effective. Haters out there, know your audience.
  19. Birdy

    Birdy New Member

    Oh, couldn't you see it coming? "Potty Mouth" is all about hits, and when he writes about Kruse, his ratings jump. And when he bashes Kruse, they jump even more, I am sure. Its all about him trying to drive traffic to sell his book.
  20. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    But when it comes to his book, do I want to be him or like him, can he teach me anything? What is he selling? Should it be called, " I'm OK and You're NOT?" He thinks we need him to do our thinking, I think. I am a very confused sheep.

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