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Enlightening others is difficult.any advice?

Discussion in 'Feedback/Suggestions' started by Darleen, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Darleen

    Darleen New Member

    Hi All, Before reading Dr.K's dopamine Rx, I was inclined to "mind my own business" in regards to someone's health. I'm still torn. However when it's someone we love and we see them suffering do we stay quiet? Are they happy this way, overweight, stumbling to walk, struggling to remember small things, etc etc. after reading the dopamine rx I think I've had a change of heart. I don't want to be the person who annoys her father to "be healthy" and I don't want to be the daughter who regrets not haunting him to be healthier. At what point do you give up though, let them live the life they want to live. Is it selfish to want more for them? Maybe I'm over thinking it. But if anyone can relate I'd love to hear your story. Tia ;)
    harmony likes this.
  2. Jenelle

    Jenelle Evolving

    Interesting that I popped in and got to see this thread today. This was a subject of discussion with my niece today, regarding my own father.

    For the first time ever, he started asking me questions a couple of years ago ~ and he was actually open to what I had to say. I printed food lists for him from my favorite keto book at the time, I sent him articles, websites, I had some really good conversations with him. He lost ~40 pounds and was determined to get off all medications. He was more confident, more clear and sharp, and he was proud of himself. I really thought he "got it" and I thought he'd made a life change. I could not have been happier because this felt like a personal success, as well ~ and I pictured more years with him as a result.

    Fast forward to now: He not only fell off the wagon, but apparently decided to roll around on the ground and get run over a few times. We do not discuss his health or nutrition -- quite honestly, if I open myself up to it again, it would be downright painful. I have given him the information, I have given him the tools. If he decides to let them gather dust in the shed ... while he continues to pack on more weight and acquire new health problems ... *I* can't feel in any way responsible for that. And I realized that his success was not mine any more than his failure. HE has to want it, and HE has to own it. No one else can do it for him.

    My mother told me the other day that the doctor told him he was a candidate for either weight loss surgery or a diet pill. He came home with a filled prescription of diet pills ... And a dozen donuts.

    That is my experience. My best advice is that THEY first have to want it. Without that ~ you have nothing. Even with that, it sometimes is not enough.
  3. Darleen

    Darleen New Member

    Thank you for this Jenelle. You are so right when you say their success isn't yours nor is their failure. Your perspective is one I mostly adhere to It's a battle within me but just recently I said Dad, when your looking for some insights to feel better, I'm here to help. I suppose all to do is lead by example. Not that I'm perfect in any way but I am always trying my hardest to learn and do my own 'bio hacks'
    Thanks again needed to hear it
    Allin, caroline and Jenelle like this.
  4. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    My 2 cents .......it is one thing to just drop dead - that is pretty easy.

    It is quite another thing to be bed ridden and in diapers and losing your mental capacity ....being cared for by your loved ones because you can no longer do anything for yourself.

    I do know this from personal experience. It is heartbreaking. My DH would have done anything to reverse his kidney failure and heart failure ......he was not lucky enuf to be given a second chance.

    My heart aches every single day for what this beautiful, wonderful, kind and loving man went thru.

    I know so much better now .....but it is too late.
    harmony, Lahelada and Joe Gavin like this.
  5. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Dr. Kruse tells us over and over .....we don't seem to embark on an optimal health journey until we are sick and tired of being sick and tired.
    Joe Gavin likes this.
  6. Inger

    Inger Silver

    It is heartbreaking when people that would have done the change.... did not got the information.... like your dear husband, Caroline....
    That is why I always tell... if I feel there is a little openness at all. Because who knows if this person actually really wants change.. We can never know.....
    Then I let it go and think, the main thing is, people get to know how they can get better. Everyone has a right to know the possibilities. Then they can do what they want with the information. Most are not ready to change.. but some might be... if not now.. maybe later

    I just say, you know, I know you can get better! If you want, let me tell you how! And then I make it very simple.. because it is pretty simple ;) We just have to connect to nature.. and turn away from the crazy artificial shit we have created.
    harmony, Joe Gavin and caroline like this.
  7. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    thank you Inger..... that is exactly why you and I can't be with anyone who doesn't give all this a go - at the very least.

    Tony was telling a car dealer yesterday why we wanted a sunroof. The guy asked if if we weren't worried about too much sun and getting skin cancer.

    Tony explained about our sun callous and how much we needed to be in the sun and ocean for our continued good health and well being.

    Tony actually went on at great length - I was very impressed!
    harmony and Joe Gavin like this.
  8. Joe Gavin

    Joe Gavin Face Everything And Rise

    Wow I can really identify with your dad. I spent years climbing out of holes only to drop back into them. I was deathly afraid of success. Turns out a lot of people are as well. We become comfortable in identifying with our small self, our pain-body. It becomes part of us. The ego will do anything to maintain its status in our mind; anything to protect itself.

    For me, it took realizing that my story was bullshit. And a huge bottom where the discrepancy between my core values and my actions became so wide, that I'd either change or die. My life situation was not my life. It's been an iterative process (change is on a continuum) helped along with some amazingly supportive people. I found this book to be helpful in understanding "resistance" in myself (and others). It may provide some ideas on how to talk to your dad and understand his world right now.


    One take away from the book: until a person identifies a specific person, place and time on where they got stuck, pretty much any conversation on behavior change is futile.

    harmony, Darleen and caroline like this.
  9. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Change is simple to help others with.......grab their hand say nothing bring them outside without every morning with a bottle of spring water and just talk about life.

    That is it.

    Learn to deepen your keel. When the winds of life blow you'll remain resolute in your journey even when you have to tack backward a bit from your target. This is the messiness of life; we all carry multitudes, so we must at times drift with the shifts beneath us. We are complicated creatures, and ultimately, the balance comes from understanding that sometimes you are like a boat and other time you actually are the water below. Life wants us to be more water like. Flowing, flexible, soft and chaotic. Subtly powerful yet open. Wild and serene. Able to accept all changes, yet still led by the pull of steady tides we face. Why do we need to be more like water and less like the boat? Water is the vagina for sunlight. It receives and memorizes the information in the sun. Factoid of the day: Limiting beliefs comes from an environment that gives our brain a low quantum yield of information. Low quantum yield means not enough sunlight. 'The sun is the most sophisticated information delivery service in existence'.........and you all need its messages to your eye and into your brain to teach you fundamentally what to do in just about any situation. When you listen to the messages your life becomes simple. You become like the hippo and don't have to be told what to eat of do because you already know. So the key is to do what you did Folks, step out into the light and bring as many with you as you can and watch how things improve without doing much at all.
    harmony, Darleen and caroline like this.
  10. Allin

    Allin New Member

    He came home with a filled prescription of diet pills ... And a dozen donuts. ....that says its all.
  11. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    You cannot help those incapable of helping themselves
  12. Jenelle

    Jenelle Evolving

  13. harmony

    harmony Harmony makes things grow lack of it things decay

    I have to go with both points of view. My dad was a fitness advocator. We (myself and siblings) went to the beach for fun, but he taught us to swim and we trained to compete as swimmers several times a week from a young age. We did sit ups with our toes tucked under the handle of the coal bunker, were thrown medicine balls, and shown how to use a bullworker. Did we? Yes and then as older adolescents no. Was he disappointed in us - yes. As we grew up we stayed active to a point but none us turned into sports people, or do over-much exercise. He however was still playing tennis at 80, zero medication, walked a mile or more everyday, ate what he liked - but couldn't ever give up smoking no matter how hard he tried. He taught us though and we all remember.

    He had a stroke at 82 and now has vascular dementia which means he has long term and short term memory loss. We sit outside in the sun to have lunch (routine), he'll stay out there when I come back in because its warm. Should I say "go sit outside", he'd probably dig his heels in, but I say "come outside and charge your batteries", and he comes. He hates the doctor but loves the physio. Can I make him do the exercises, no "too hard, don't understand". But if I start doing the exercises, his head goes to one side and he says "I can do that". So he does. Because he wants to. Can I stop him putting three spoonfuls of sugar in his coffee, or drinking 6 cups a day? I probably could but at 89 should I? No. We can lead and encourage and be more creative with sharing our time with people to help them, but there are always sticking points, things we cannot "make" people do.

    I really enjoyed reading this thread yesterday though ... https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/as-requested-a-success-story.5914/
    It was really inspiring, especially for how successful he was at inspiring others to follow his lead. I haven't had much luck just talking to people, especailly if they are well educated and especially when they are very sick. But I bought a good friend Dr Kruses book and sent it to him. I've shared stuff on Facebook and been pleasantly surprised when people I don't know well "like" something - like the preschool kids in bathing suits in the siberia snow, pouring buckets of water over their heads, and the autistic son of a friend "liked" the video on sunbathing I shared from Dr Kruses page. Sometimes one small thing like that can lead to another adoptation at a later time. But self sabotage is very real, I know it well. We get enthusiastic and then we just can't keep it up. I don't want to be belittled or nagged at that point, but would probably jump at the chance to do it - with someone, even if it wasn't enough, it would be better than none.
    Darleen likes this.

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