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EMF 4 - Stumped ATP beta-ox questions

Discussion in 'The EMF Rx' started by dantothep, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    Apologies if I have missed something key here....hopefully someone can help. This is proper head melting stuff.

    JK talks about beta-oxidation being more efficient at creating ATP, this I get and read up a little bit elsewhere also.

    Questions:

    1. How long does beta oxidation take to create 147 ATP from one molecule of an 18 carbon stearic acid?
    EMF 4 alludes to it happening in sleep...but I thought i read that any extra energy (ATP) from the day is burned off as heat at night?
    2. If ATP can't be stored, what happens to the extra ATP made if it isn't used at that time?

    3. How does beta-oxidation help short intense exercise such as weightlifting, jumping etc?

    Is the take home for the non biochemist/medical geek, just to adapt to eating more fat as your energy source? And not carb loading post workout, as the fat should sustain your energy levels longer so you don't instantly need the quick carb hit?
     
    Mihaly Safran likes this.
  2. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    Or is the take home, don't do too much intensive anaerobic training?
     
  3. Penny

    Penny New Member

  4. Jonathin

    Jonathin Gold Member

    I think the most important point is that ATP allows protein unfolding so that water can form charged exclusion zones of water. That is how energy manifests. The question is to what degree your body can accomplish and maintain that charged hydration. ATP is a cog in the machine not the source of energy. Too much carbs breaks down mitos especially at Complex 1 and DNA damage. Kinda like killing the goose that laied the golden egg except the effect is slower and less obvious at first.
     
  5. Mihaly Safran

    Mihaly Safran New Member

    Im also looking forward to read the answers 1-2.
    3. I think we have enough readily avaible ATP pool for 1-2 second (jumping, heavy lifting), and after that creatin-phosphate system is working on regenerating the ATP (10-15 second). even in ketosis. In longer exercises (above 10 second) B-oxidation starting to dominate the ATP regeneration.
    If you want to be better fat adapted, than you shouldnt do carb loading pre and post workout. it can take 1-2 months (or even more if you were "carboholic") to switch from carb depending sport metabolism to fat and ketone dominating.
     
    dantothep likes this.
  6. Mihaly Safran

    Mihaly Safran New Member

    I think if you are more and more fat adapted than your anaerobic treshold is going up, you burn less and less glucose in higher intensities and you can comfortably move without lactic acid buildup. So you shouldnt avoid anaerobic training. Its ok to do it during the transition, but your anaerobic performance will suffer in the first few weeks. When you are fully keto-adapted, your muscles doesnt burn glucose, just ketones and fatty acids even in very high intensity
     
    dantothep likes this.
  7. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    But this paragraph:

    Cross fitters live in this pathway constantly because of their WOD are done for time alone. The ATP-CP system has a special problem built in for fast ATP recyclers. The methylation of guanidinoacetate to form creatine consumes more methyl groups than all other methylation reactions combined in the human body. This implies the more you use the ATP-PC system the more likely you will become a major slow methylator whether you have the 677 or 1298 SNP. This is why vegans, performance and endurance athletes fall apart early, have horrible vitamin D levels, major dopamine/serotonin issue, trouble with their ammonia cycles, and have horrible endogenous glutathione recycling.
     
    Josh (Paleo Osteo) likes this.
  8. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    I know I have methylation issues, horrible vit D, and dopa/sero issues.
     
  9. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    And yes as I cut more and more carbs my energy diminishes. how long must one endure this adaptation? BTW I do not want to lose weight, so i'm only cutting carbs to force my body to use the fat - if this is even the right way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  10. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    Hi Penny - thanks.

    First couple of links look good - easy to understand which helps.

    I'm not at those later blogs yet, i'm trying to go through chronologically, it does get confusing when older blogs are superseded; like you I would love to be able to buy book no#2 right now.
     
  11. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    Need to do more reading to understand your statement here.
     
  12. Penny

    Penny New Member

    Truly, it's kind of a nightmare to fathom - the only thing I *think* I know - I'm probably wrong is to be a fat burner, you would go into ketosis and would register ketones on a ketone stick - personally, I just take the niacinimide and put d-ribose in my coffee along with coconut oil - kills hunger for hours and is energizing - I have read EMF 4 like 8 times by now and that's all I come away with: d-ribose, pinch hit to cytochrome 2 using niacinimide - if cytochrome 1 is screwed up - or you don't want to generate ROS by eating carbs, then just enter cytochrome 2 with niacinimide - Gretchen had some simple posts to the effect of C1=carbs=ROS C2=fat=no ROS - get there by burning fat (PPP) or taking a niacinimide - since I have developed a love affair with honey lately, the choice for me is easy - but I am probably still generating ROS by eating the honey...

    But truly, I think if you just eat fish and coconut oil daily, get cold and don't snack, drink ice cold non flouridated water, you've got it covered... along with EMF avoidance of course -

    This guy also explains the cell membrane stuff really well and how genes really are not the end all be all - the cell membrane is:
     
    JMO likes this.
  13. Jude

    Jude Gold

    Somewhere, don't know where, JK said that it takes 36 mths to truly enter the PPP? anyone else remember that?
    Barry from Fasted training thread also warns that achieving the PPP even in athletes isn't as easy as it seems...........N=1
     
  14. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    ^^^^ 36 months in March.....Im ready for you PPP :D:D:D
     
    cinnamon likes this.
  15. Penny

    Penny New Member

    Maybe that's why I just take the niacinimide - I think it's 24 months - but the memory is vague -
     
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Because no one really biohacks their environment.......they think they do.......but most don't or really won't accept that reality
     
  17. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    I take this to mean; everyone wants to change everything except the Elephant in the room, which is normally their environment laden with EMF and Geopathic stress? Am I correct?
     
    River, sjoshua and cantweight like this.
  18. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    Whilst achieving the golden PPP badge seems like a great honour, your body must create NADPH from the PPP, or does it create NADPH from another process that is more inefficient / toxic?

    Does having a 'perfect' environment allows the body to use PPP?

    EDIT - of course the perfect nnEMF limited environment allows the body to use the PPP.

    The take home hypothesis from EMF 4 is:

    Anaerobic exercise (strength training) + High EMF environment + whether you have the 677 or 1298 SNP = Slow Methylator = Fucked.

    So based upon this If get my 23andme and test and it shows 677 or 1298 SNP then I have found the key to my problem ----> Short term (6 months) is to take a methylated b vit + creatine if training ------> Long term save up and move out of the current flat (london ain't cheap).
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
    River likes this.
  19. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    If i'm correct this sentence in BOLD is grossly misleading:

    This may explain why when you are not a fat burner, you constantly live a life with ATP recycling deficits.

    It should read

    This may explain why when you are not a fat burner because of your nnEMF exposure (rather than your lack of carbs), you constantly live a life with ATP recycling deficits.
     
  20. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    Another misleading paragraph:

    Non Geeks: This is why carbs/glucose/fructose keep you from finding out that D-Ribose is the alternative fuel for ultimate performance. It is also why bad clock timing leads to diabetes, autoimmunity, and cancer. It helps explain why cycloset is helpful in restoring AM cortisol function and helping T2D in a fashion thatINDEPENDENT OF INSULIN! See, Taubes did miss this part of the insulin carb story too.

    It should read

    Non Geeks: This is why carbs/glucose/fructose + nnEMF keep you from finding out that D-Ribose is the alternative fuel for ultimate performance. It is also why bad clock timing leads to diabetes, autoimmunity, and cancer. It helps explain why cycloset is helpful in restoring AM cortisol function and helping T2D in a fashion thatINDEPENDENT OF INSULIN! See, Taubes did miss this part of the insulin carb story too.
     

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