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Do I Want Oxidized Cells?

Discussion in 'Beginners Area' started by QiGuy1997, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. QiGuy1997

    QiGuy1997 New Member

    Hello everyone, I hope my constant posts aren't getting excessive. I've been trying to understand the effects of redox potential on cell physiology and function lately and it's terribly fascinating. I've been skimming the theories of Gilbert Ling and Szent-Gyorgi (both of whom saw redox potential as chief regulators of cell function). I've been considering Dr. Kruse's idea that the cell should be more reduced, but I cannot figure out his reasoning. According to this guy here, http://pranarupa.wordpress.com/page/2/,
    "the increased CO2 is known to improve muscle relaxation, this is no doubt due to its capacity to restore the cell to healthy oxidative metabolism, resulting in decreased intracellular pressure, shifting redox balance towards a more “oxidizedâ€￾ state, accompanied by increased ATP synthesis, increased water structure and resulting higher level of energy. This decreased intracellular pressure in Viktor Schauberger’s terms may be a result of a “biological vacuum’ and a resulting inflow of ‘ethericies’ increasing cellular energy and structure (more on potential connections between Schauberger and Peat in a later post)."
    Obviously this Pranarupa person thinks that an oxidized cell state is more healthy than a reduced cell state. He also states that "The Living-state for Szent-Gyorgyi (1977) was the electronically desaturated state, that allows for the development of increasingly complex life. Szent-Gyorgyi argues that cancer results from a failure in electronic desaturation, leading to loss of differentiated structure (Pohl et al. 1977)." and that cancer occurs in a more reduced state, while metabolism of normal cells can be regenerated by creating a more oxidized environment. I did a bit more research of my own and I found that NAD+ (the oxidized form) activates the Sirtuin 1 gene, which is responsible for longevity. A high NAD+/NADH (the reduced state) activates the Sirtuin 1 gene. I also found that the ratio of NAD+/NADH falls in cells as an organism ages, suggesting that cells become reduced as they age, and lose oxidizing potential. What do you guys think? What's with the conflicting theories? Am I misunderstanding something?
  2. QiGuy1997

    QiGuy1997 New Member

    Here's more info from http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(13)00755-1: (Remember, NAD+ is oxidized)
    Enhancing NAD+ availability extends lifespan in C. elegans through sir-2.1
    The NAD+/sir-2.1-dependent activation of mitochondrial UPR is crucial for longevity
    Higher NAD+ bioavailability protects against ROS by enhancing daf-16 activity
    UPRmt is a conserved target of the NAD+/SIRT1 axis in mammalian cells

    NAD+ is an important cofactor regulating metabolic homeostasis and a rate-limiting substrate for sirtuin deacylases. We show that NAD+ levels are reduced in aged mice and Caenorhabditis elegans and that decreasing NAD+ levels results in a further reduction in worm lifespan. Conversely, genetic or pharmacological restoration of NAD+ prevents age-associated metabolic decline and promotes longevity in worms
  3. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Oxidation has its role........it is a signal we use. The problem arises when the smoke signals are too faint or a pyroclastic flow......I like the fact you question things but I wonder if you think a bit too concretely.........biology and health are not concrete sciences.......but you seem to think they are........and I dont. Maybe that is your issue with my work.
  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Maybe if you read the Quilt.......you'd see what it says in the beginning. To get where I am headed you have to embrace paradox and enigma......that is where the truth is buried. Its not on the road in front of your eyes.

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