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Dan2's Journal

Discussion in 'My Optimal Journal' started by Dan2, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Musings ....:eek::D

    I'm not sure how it can support the repair of the human photosynthetic machinery, without thought being given to replenishing parts (i.e mass) lost through even normal wear and tear. In the context of Herrera's hypothesis, to repair the system uses melanin (or its precursors for the body to make it), and he talks about quinones in his book as mobile electron carriers, (that's my next rabbit hole). He uses a melanin based product to improve cognition in AD etc. In his book there's a passing mention about melanin doping, which -apart from "normal" dopants - fits in with my thoughts on excessive iron and aluminium, for example damaging the substantia nigra in Parkinson's. So for the hydrogen gas therapy, I'd be wondering how that could repair the substantia nigra itself ....? Or what extra hydrogen getting into a cell with compromised/insufficient melanin in the organelles actually does ...?

    Melanin in human photosynthesis is a photolysis based system, as opposed to an electrolysis one, so another missing piece from the gas inhalation or enriched water is photonic information. I visualise electrons as being programmed by the environment, via light, (or its absence), constantly changing as the environment changes, as opposed to "same". Because of overnight, fasting, starvation etc, I don't see food as a reliable source of hydrogen, but as a source of mass generally, and information. I'm not in the shit off a shingle camp because malnutrition unrelated to starvation exists at the equator. Also if aging or disease makes endogenous production of something less efficient, eating it becomes more important. One example being inositol, made endogenously from glucose. Theoretically supplementing inositol until the body starts making it again could compare to the pregnenolone idea, but its also naturally occurring in a wide range of foods, as is melanin in mushrooms, nuts, seeds, squid ink etc. But if digestion was bad, an easily absorbable inositol or melanin supplement might be a good idea in the short term. As treatments they are OK, its when they become lifestyle choices problems are more likely to arise, particularly if they are adopted as lifestyle choices before advanced chronological age and associated heteroplasmy calls for it .... :)
    Dan2 likes this.
  2. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Dan2 mentioned supplemental pregnenolone, used until the body starts making it.
    So you both know,
    years ago, while on the board of (late) Dr. John Crisler
    I studied pregnenolone/progesterone.
    Commonly available pregnenolone pills have not even made changes on my blood tests.
    Eventually, I had success with:
    Pregnenolone Micronized Lipid Matrix from Nutricology
    I ended up eating large amounts of it (up to close to 1000mg/day)
    Tests started showing (small) increases in my pregnenolone levels.
    I have not had any benefits from that supplementation.
    Many guys there started following me (without testing).
    One or two reported some negatives.
    Eventually, I dropped supplemental pregnenolone.
    Mine tests then were blood tests at LabCorp.
    Wonder what I had seen if DUTCH testing was available.
    My body has not started making any additional pregnenolone.
    The same goes for Inositol that I use now.
    I am writing all this because I have not experienced the:
    until the body starts making it again
    it either does not happen, or I am just an outlier.

    Dan2 likes this.
  3. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    The Best Peptides For Boosting Mitochondria, Brain Health and Longevity with Dr Daniel Stickler
    Ari Whitten
    Jun 28, 2019

    >>>>> 5:25 -- hair regrowth

    "We have hair and skin peptides. There's a new hair peptide that's changing the whole landscape of hair replacement, for sure. This stuff is incredible. It's a pathway that was just identified back in November, so it's a very new peptide. And people are getting amazing results with hair regrowth in areas that had no follicles at all."

    >>>>> 6:35 -- Epitalon

    "Epitalon is four amino acids long, so it's a really short little peptide. It was isolated by Dr. Khavinson [Prof. Vladimir Khavinson] at the University of St. Petersburg. He did two studies, six year and twelve year studies, on elderly patients, so I think they were between 70 and 90 years old. They had just unbelievable outcomes with this. Now, a lot of people will say, 'Well, I question the research because it's almost too good to be true.' And what I know of Dr. Khavinson, from the people that have spoken about having worked with him, is that he's very meticulous with his data. The Russians are not the most ethical with studies and selection, but they're like the Germans when it comes to accuracy of their results and being very precise with everything. So I'm inclined to believe [Dr. Khavinson's results], and I've actually seen very positive results with people who've used Epitalon in my medical practice. It's one of those ones though where most people don't feel anything overt when they're taking it, and you typically run two cycles a year for about 20 days and that's it, and you just rely on what it's doing in the system. It's got anti-tumor properties; improved glucose utilization; it upregulates the glutathione and antioxidant systems; one aspect that was studied was telomeres and they saw between 16% and 33% increase in telomere length, and remember, this is 70 to 90 year old people; they had like eight times the improvement in physical performance activities; and they had subjective well-being improvements in these groups, and this is a lot of what we see with our clients; 80% increase in bone density; 28% overall lower mortality in the group that was on it verus not. There's something with this stuff that is really creating a great outcome. And like I said, it's a four amino acid peptide. So I'm kinda taking it on faith that it's working. And we do some measurements. We do epigenetic age markings with myDNAge, and that's gonna be our metric to see how this is doing..."


    "Now, Epitalon -- what's it doing? We don't know. That's one of the problems with peptides: because they cannot really be patented, there's a lot of difficulty in getting people to do the research on them. Pharmaceutical companies are funding most of the research, so they're like, 'Well we can't patent it, so there's no sense in doing it.' There's one of the neurological peptides called Dihexa -- which is amazing; we'll talk about -- that was developed out of the University of Washington, a pharmaceutical company kinda bought it up, and they had great results with it but they can't patent it, so they're trying to figure out ways to modify it in some way that creates it as a patentable drug, even though it's very effective the way it is."

    >>>>> 26:54 growth hormone-stimulating peptides (more before this quote)

    "So you think there's a pretty significant role for some of these growth hormone secretagogues as far as increasing health span?"

    "I do. With these, we're not getting into supraphysiologic doses [(more than normally present in the body)]. That's the great thing about peptides: they self-regulate; you can overdose all you want, and what happens is you just down-regulate receptors; the body knows this stuff. When we were giving growth hormone we kinda bypassed a lot of the regulatory mechanisms thinking we were doing the right thing and it just didn't work, but with the biologics [a.k.a peptides], we're getting a lot better response when we're going downstream a little further and letting the system kinda control itself. So we enhance the system to take it to the useful levels, but even if we try to take it to some suprahphysiologic level it just resists it."

    @JanSz ^ Do you agree with that?

    >>>>> 37:23 brain peptides, Cerebrolysin

    "...And then the brain peptides, you have ones that'll mitigate neuroinflammation, so you're talking about really great longevity aspects, some of these will increase dendritic growth in profound ways, and they're used in clinical trials for traumatic brain injury recovery, stroke recovery, people with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's..."

    "Do some of them have some evidence regarding preventing or treating neurodegenerative diseases?"

    "They do. There are a lot of clinical trials going on right now with several of them. Cerebrolysin is an extract from pig brain, and it's got BDNF, GDNF, CNTF, and NGF -- brain-derived neurotrophic factor, glial-derived neurotrophic factor, ciliary neurotrophic factor, nerve growth factor. These are all things that create protection, neural health, reduce neuroinflammation. Cerebrolysin's been used in some clinical trials in Europe in degenerative brain issues, as well as post-recovery from stroke, and some of the traumatic brain injuries; so it's probably the one with the most research behind it right now. It is available by prescription from compounding pharmacies here in the US; it's not on the pharmaceutical market per se but it can be prescribed."

    >>>>> 40:43 - Dihexa

    "Dihexa's fascinating. This is the one developed out of the University of Washington. This is only a six amino acid peptide. They've just recently come out with an oral form of it and what we'd been using prior to that was a topical cream... Now this is the fascinating part. We know the importance of BDNF -- you take some bacopa, you take some holy basil, you can increase BDNF in the brain -- and it's always a great thing because BDNF is kinda adaptogenic for the stress system, and for learning and memory, but the big thing is it causes new dendrites to grow, it causes neurogenesis; now dihexa was found to be seven orders of magnitude stronger than BDNF in dendrite growth in the brain. To get your head around this, this is seven orders of magnitude; this isn't seven times stronger; this is 10,000,000 times stronger than BDNF. And the animal studies on this -- you can look at the slides on the dendrite growth with it and it's profound. So they're currently looking at some clinical trials with dihexa in the realm of neurodegenerative diseases, even looking at it in spinal cord injuries, looking at in multiple sclerosis; and that's why this company is really trying to patent this thing: because it has great potential for it. But right now it's available in the form they first discovered it in."

    >>>>> 45:06 - autoimmunity

    "Other topics within the topic of peptides; autoimmunity I know is a big one... Can you talk a bit about peptides as it relates to immune health? Ane one more nuance to this, is chronic infections; that can be a potential cause of severe chronic fatigue for some people. Do you know of any peptides that might play a role in helping people with chronic infections as well?"

    "Yeah, we use several peptides in that regard, mostly dealing with people who progress to the chronic inflammatory response syndrome; so we deal with people reaching out to us who have chronic lyme, chronic mold issues. What's really cool about the peptides is that one of the net effects of chronic inflammatory response syndrome is severe suppression of alpha-MSH [alpha-melanocyte-stimulating hormone] in the brain, and that cascades down to immune system, sexual function, libido, energy levels, so it creates this massive dump of just feeling terrible. And one of the cool peptides is Melanotan II. People take it for tanning. Alpha-MSH is what Melanotan II is, so it's a melanocyte stimulator. And in chronic inflammatory response syndrome it mitigates the symptoms like crazy. Amazing. A low dose of that on a daily basis has really had dramatic effects for people... [Mentions another one to prevent autoimmunity.] But these are mitigating symptoms; they're not really treating anything.

    One of the other ones that I found, one of the peptides that's worked really well for treating, is Thymosin Alpha. Thymosin Alpha has had profound effects with resetting the immune system in autoimmune people. So what it does: it kinda makes damaged cells, or infected cells, more visible to the immune system. So a lot of the time when an infection gets into a cell -- like in lyme, or a cancer cell -- one of the things that these organisms do or these processes that occur is that they try to hide from the immune system. Thymosin Alpha, for some reason, it resets the system so that all the markers on the surface of the cells that tell the immune system, "Hey, there's something wrong with this cell", they start expressing with [the help of] the Thymosin Alpha. I was doing a consult with a client the other day, and the guy had six years of prostate cancer, and they'd been monitoring his PSA levels, and he'd gotten up to 15, and then he did a course of Thymosin Alpha and his PSA levels dropped to 2. I don't know if it's from the Thymosin Alpha, but the correlation with the timing of that was impressive. And did it actually cause the cancer cells to be more visible to the immune system? I don't know. But that's one of the theories of how Thymosin Alpha works."

    "Would something like that potentially be detrimental for someone with autoimmune disease, where the immune system is too aggressive...?"

    "I don't deal much with people with autoimmunity, but I know several doctors who do, and they have anecdotally told me that it really works well in those situations, just because of the fact that -- in autoimmunity it isn't that if you improve the immune system it's going to make it worse; in autoimmunity you have a disregulated immune system; and so the Thymosin Alpha kinda resets that and gives you the balance is the theory behind what's happening with it."

    >>>>> 51:51 -- BPC157

    "What specific peptides are your personal favorites, the ones that you've experimented with, that give you the best results or that you continue to use?"

    "...BPC157 by far is my favorite. That one is huge. You talk about something that heals the gut -- I do nothing for gut healing any more, no probiotics, no supplementation; you get them eating a healthy diet and put them on BPC157 and the gut heals. It's just amazing how effective that is. And for any injuries or keeping me from getting injured, BPC is absolutely wonderful in that regard."

    "Have you seen Dr. William Seeds' BPC product that's being sold as a nutritional supplement? I'm curious if that's legitimate, or --"

    "It's not BPC157."

    "Do you know what it is exactly?"

    "BPC is produced in the stomach, and it's a fairly long compound, and BPC157 is a short segment of it that's stable in the digestive tract. There are tons of studies on BPC157, a lot of clinical trials in humans and animal models, and there are zero studies on 'Body Protective Complex' -- or I don't remember what he calls it. Dr. Seeds is brilliant with peptides, but I have no confidence in that product."
  4. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    I have tried growth hormone-stimulating peptides
    they have not worked for me.
    I found (I think) a statement by dr Herthoge:
    they work for young people (who usually) do not need them
    they do not work for older folks
    Some very young peoples have GH problems. (Is too late when bones stop growing).
    GH is super expensive, parents usually can't afford it.
    Peptides are still expensive but not compared to GH.
    May be worth trying.
    When trying to use actual GH,
    at first be careful. Some people develop high pressure in their eyeballs, loose sight.
    Very rare, but it is on the list of possible problems.

    Norditropin Pen FlexPro
    prefilled pen

    I used for a while
    untill ran out of prescriptions for it.

    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  5. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    I meant just about the italicized parts: "That's the great thing about peptides: they self-regulate; you can overdose all you want, and what happens is you just down-regulate receptors... So we enhance the system to take it to the useful levels, but even if we try to take it to some suprahphysiologic level it just resists it."

    I guess maybe he meant that only about the GH-stimulating peptides?
    I just started learning about it, but I'm suspicious that there must be more nuance to dosing for some?, most? of them than "you can overdose all you want".

    I'm interested in the normalizing ones, like (I heard this mentioned in a few interviews as a general way that some peptides work) to help get some pathway functioning better and then it doesn't need to be used after that boost and the system it helped normalize stays more normalized for months.
    For example:

    BPC157 - The "One Stop" Peptide for Body, Brain & Gut with Jean Francois Tremblay from CanLab
    Nathalie Niddam
    Feb 4, 2021

    20:46 --
    "BPC157 repairs ligaments. If you take it and you don't have any injured ligaments, it won't make your ligament thicker or stronger or better; it's just gonna leave them alone... It won't force that action..."

    "So, and it does this on blood pressure in the same way... it's a normalizer..."

    ...(less related) also from that:
    19:06 --
    "And going back to the GI tract -- some of the conditions that BPC157 has helped with, and I've heard this from a number of practitioners, is even things like Crohn's and colitis; if people have the ability to use it the way it needs to be used in those conditions, which is fairly high-dose for a period of time, it can actually chase those bad conditions right back into remission in some cases."

    "I've seen full remission of Crohn's disease in [?] treatments. And serious cases where they were supposed to have big segments of the intestine removed."
    JanSz likes this.
  6. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    A New Deep Dive on Peptides with Expert, Ryan Smith
    by Ben Pakulski - Muscle Intelligence
    Mar 30, 2020

    41:51 -- About Dihexa starts

    [42:21] "It has 10,000,000 times the potency of BDNF [brain-derived neurotrophic factor], which is a strategy of lot of people use to treat some of these [neurodegenerative] conditions... It's mimicking angiotensin IV, or hepatocyte growth factor (HGF), and activating c-MET receptor which has a lot of downstream consequences. It increases neurogenesis. Dr. Harding from the University of Washington has been sort of in charge of this research on Angiotensin IV [research Dihexa was developed from] throughout his career, and even he says [Dihexa] has been shown to help with most models of cognitive dysfunction they've been able to simulate in a lab. If anyone is wanting to learn more about this product, I always direct them to a video that he did. If you search on Vimeo 'Joseph Harding' you'll see a video he did, which has an awesome link of showing rats that had Parkinson's induced through a chemical model and then treated with Dihexa. They do what they call a 'hanging rat test'; they just put the rat on a rope like it's doing a pull-up and then they see how long it can hang on. And they did this with three rats; one was the normal rat with no intervention, the second rat was the Parkinson's rat with no treatment, and the third rat was a Parkinson's rat treated with Dihexa. The rat that was treated with Dihexa was able to hang on to the rope over twice as long as the normal rat... And so the power of Dihexa, and the application of it across many diseases, makes it a peptide that's very exciting."

    "Is it topical?"

    "It was designed by Dr. Harding to be an oral-available product. A lot of peptides aren't stable through the GI, but this one is. So we know it's effective orally. However, in our talks with Dr. Harding after we've used this clinically as a transdermal, we've actually seen really good results. The pharmacokinetic data hasn't been done as a transdermal, but we have seen clinical results. And the speculation is we actually see better clinical results as a transdermal because it's able to bypass hepatic metabolism. And so it's another one that I would say we can even reduce the doses as transdermal verus relatively high and expensive doses done as an orally-available product."

    The video mentioned:

    Title: ADDF Joseph Harding
    Posted 7 years ago by World Events Forum, Inc.
    24 minutes

    At 16:54 he starts talking about the Parkinson's study.
    Pictures of the times each rat hang on to the rope:

    1 first rat falls.png

    2 second rat falls.png

    3 third rat falls.png



    Development of Hepatocyte Growth Factor Mimetics for the Treatment of Neurodegenerative Disease

    "Project Description:
    The project will first investigate the ability of Dihexa, a hepatocyte growth factor activator, to prevent the development of Parkinson-like symptoms in a pre-clinical model of Parkinson’s disease. Motor function and nerve cell health will be monitored. Next we will determine whether Dihexa is capable of restoring motor function in pre-clinical models that are already exhibiting motor deficits. Additionally, we will examine two possible mechanisms: the induction of new connections among remaining nerve cells and the generation of new nerve cells from stem cells already present in the brain.

    Relevance to Diagnosis/Treatment of Parkinson’s Disease:
    The goal of the project is exploit the natural ability of a neurotrophic factor, hepatocyte growth factor, to protect nerve cells from damage in Parkinson’s patients by using orally active small molecule activators. Moreover, it is possible that the use of these activators will not only prevent damage but encourage recovery by repairing damaged connections among nerve cells and stimulating the production of new nerve cells from neural stem cells.

    Anticipated Outcome:
    Two positive outcomes are possible from this work. First, Dihexa may prevent the development of Parkinson’s disease in pre-clinical models. In humans we would expect that Dihexa would stop the progression of the disease following diagnosis at any stage. Second, Dihexa could reverse the nerve cell damage initiated by Parkinson’s disease resulting in a recovery of lost function.

    Final Outcome:
    The goal of this project was to begin to evaluate the therapeutic potential of a small molecule activator of a growth factor, hepatocyte growth factor, which is known to protect nerve cells from damage, stimulate new connections among nerve cells, and induce the production of new neurons form stem cells. The hypothesis guiding the study was that the drug candidate Dihexa would be effective at restoring motor function that was lost in a standard pre-clinical model of Parkinson’s disease. The results of this study confirmed this hypothesis, demonstrating that Dihexa, given by abdominal injection or orally, completely restored lost motor function. Moreover, staining for tyrosine hydroxylase (TH), a marker for the dopamine neurons that were lost following chemical lesioning, returned to near normal after 34 days of treatment. Studies are still ongoing to determine whether this recovery of TH staining was due to the presence of new nerve cells and/or the expansion of the appendages of surviving neurons.

    Presentations & Publications
    Poster at the 7th Annual Drug Discovery for Neurodegeneration Conference: An Intensive Course on Translating Research into Drugs, presented by the Alzheimer’s Drug Discovery Foundation, on February 10-12, 2013 in San Francisco, CA."


    Other related papers:

    Therapeutic Potential of Hepatocyte Growth Factor for Treating Neurological Diseases
    Journal Name: Current Drug Therapy
    Volume 6, Issue 3, 2011
    Full PDF: https://sci-hub.do/10.2174/157488511796391942

    New and old roles of the peripheral and brain renin–angiotensin–aldosterone system (RAAS): Focus on cardiovascular and neurological diseases
    Journal name: International Journal of Cardiology
    Volume 227, 15 January 2017, Pages 734-742
    Full PDF: https://sci-hub.do/10.1016/j.ijcard.2016.10.069

    @Raffael Zissu
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  7. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Molecular Hydrogen for Medicine - The Art of Ancient Life Revived by Yuh Fukai 2020



    JanSz likes this.
  8. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

  9. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    JanSz said:
    Sunlight, even equatorial noon sunlight is a minimal amount of energy when compared to 1358 kWh/day.
    He still brings dark skin as being due to equatorial sunlight
    says nothing
    about black skin of white polar bear or Inuits.

    Hey @Sue-UK
    Now I have learned that there are also blonde white skin Eskimo.


  10. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    I went hiking today, the first time in a few months. I've been pretty much nocturnal this winter (sometimes outside in afternoon or at sunset but mostly awake at night) with low-wattage red lights at night, using two heat lamps for red+IR sometimes but not the Sperti Fiji or blacklight for UV, and not exercising other than a little bit of weightlifting sometimes that I've done more or less for several years with consistently lame-o gains (lame-o muscle gains; I do it because it feels good for my nerves and mood). I've been eating a carnivore-ish diet (lots of organ meats and grass-finished suet plus fermented milk, eggs, a little fish, berries and kelp tea, salt, shilajit, fermented bee pollen, propolis, bees (bees tincture; not just eating bees like a monster https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/seans-optimal-journal.20757/page-71#post-295776 )) for a little over a year now and inhaling Brown's Gas usually at least a couple hours a day for about four months.

    The point that's leading to is I was able to hike more easily today, more energy for how hard I was breathing and my posture and joints feeling stronger, than the other time I had been in my best exercise condition, about four years ago when I was trying a lot harder with circadian rhythms and exercise, when I had been sungazing almost every sunrise and sunset of spring and summer, hiking almost every day for months, and eating mostly vegetarian (including dairy, eggs, fish, but much less often red meat, and a lot of coconut oil instead of suet), and wasn't inhaling Brown's Gas/H2. So (as usual I don't know which thing did what exactly but) the carnivore-ish diet and Brown's Gas even while being nocturnal all winter and not having hiked for a few months made me in the best cardio and breathing condition I've been in since I was a toddler (toddler me is the all-time champ).
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021 at 5:25 PM
  11. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    These underlined sections are about that there are peptides in organs that have been researched by Dr. Vladimir Khavinson, what he calls "bioregulators" because they help regulate the organ they're extracted from (or were originally extracted from -- now they're synthesized).

    (Also, mmmm-feels-a-little-like-Russian-propaganda educational film about Khavinson's bioregulators:
    https://khavinson.info/video )


    Putting this warning first

    Exploring the Next Frontier: a Deep Dive Into Peptides with Jean Francois Tremblay
    by Decoding Superhuman
    Dec 23, 2019

    35:15 -- Possible autoimmune reaction to peptides; testing with low dosage first time to check

    "When using peptides with someone who has an autoimmune condition, some people have an autoimmune response to the peptide; they recognize it as a foreign agent. So if the clinician suspects some autoimmune condition, he should start with very small dosages and have some Benadryl to use in case there's an autoimmune reaction. It's rare; I became aware of the possibility when I started to work with people who had chronic fatigue, Lyme disease, and autoimmune conditions, and they said,'"If I take peptides I get --'. Yes that may happen, but you don't see it much. So I tell people, if you've never used peptides, maybe the first time use a fraction of what you intended to use and wait half an hour and see if there's a reaction; if it's a small dosage and there's a reaction it's going to be a more localized reaction [where it was injected]. And that would indicate an autoimmune response, and then you'll have to take another approach."



    "Terho Koskela
    Glandokort for the adrenal glands. This is a bioregulator peptide from Khavinson. The Khavinson peptide bioregulators work in such a way that they enter and support protein synthesis in the cells of organs to re-regulate the function of the organ. Protein synthesis decreases with age and if you strain the organs for various reasons. Khavinson has developed these bioregulators and they have been developed by millions of people with good results and there are no side effects."



    Peptides For Immune Modulation: Thymulin vs Thymalin with Jean-Francois Tremblay from CanLabs
    Nathalie Niddam
    Oct 22, 2019

    3:06 --

    "Thymulin and Thymalin -- Thymalin is a bioregulator two amino acid peptide. It doesn't go out of the thymus once you take it; it goes in the thymus, it stays there, and as with all bioregulators, what it does is it introduces itself within the DNA chain, remains there, dilates the chain kind of, to provoke the expression of genes that are positive to the activity of the thymus. The activity of the thymus then brings about the secretion by the thymus of a big protein of which Thymosin alpha 1 or Thymosin beta-4 we extract... TB-500 is a fraction of Thymosin beta-4. It's the fraction of Thymosin beta-4 that works only on repairing tendons and heart tissues --"

    "That repairs musculoskeletal --"

    "Yeah. Thymosin beta-4 has a lot of other activities -- on the nervous system, on the dendrites -- like Thymosin alpha 1 it does regulate the immune system, not as strongly as Thymosin alpha 1 but it does have some of that activity too. What is called TB-500 is a seven amino acid sequence taken out of Thymosin beta-4 to pinpoint the [tendon, heart tissue, musculoskeletal repairing] activity. There is a use for that actually. Why? Being smaller, it's cheaper. It's less amino acids, so by weight, because it's seven amino acids instead of 43 [of Thymosin alpha 1], you get more than six times more molecules per milligram. So if you take 2.5 or 5 mg of TB-500, you'll have six times more specific repairing activity than the Thymosin beta-4. So let's say you take it for the ligament, nothing else; yeah this one will be much more cost efficient than taking Thymosin beta-4..."

    "You're one of the few who actually distinguishes between the two, right?"

    "It was kind of a known thing for some, but overall we would interchange because for most people they are the same. Even at that IPS conference I went to, they're very aware of the differences, but they either refer to TB-500 or Thymosin beta-4 as the same. I don't know of any company right now that sells the actual TB-500; everybody shifted for the 43 amino acid Thymosin beta-4.

    Back to the Thymosin alpha 1. Thymulin will modulate the immune system a bit differently than Thymosin alpha 1."

    "Wait, so Thymalin is a two amind acid bioregulator and Thymulin..."

    "...To understand the difference -- there is a bioregulator for the pancreas. Thymalin is to the thymus what Pancreagen is to the pancreas. And Thymosin alpha 1 and Thymulin would be what insulin is to the pancreas. So if you take Thymosin alpha 1, if you take Thymulin, you won't do something to improve the actual functions of the thymus; as, let's say, if you have diabetes type 1 and you take insulin, the sugar is controlled, but the pancreas is not repaired. So that's how you can see the difference between Thymalin and Thymulin."

    "So Thymosin alpha 1 and Thymulin are a little bit different but they're both immune system modulators, whereas the Thymalin really acts on the thymus gland and gets it to do the work?"

    "Exactly. So in an ideal therapy, if you have a weak immune system, you would do both, because the upregulation of the thymus [the thymus's activity from thymalin] doesn't happen that fast. So for example you would do Thymosin alpha 1 to tend to the problem at hand -- a disregulated immune system -- and you would start at the same time Thymalin therapy, or Vilon [another thymus-related peptide], to slowly regulate the thymus. So eventually you wouldn't depend on the Thymosin alpha 1 or Thymulin to have a proper immune response...
    So over time you could gradually use less of the Thymosin alpha 1 and everything would be good."

    [21:22] "How is Vilon different? It's also more of a regulator, right?"

    "...Basically, it regulates the thymus gland, but it has some effect too in other tissues. Not saying that Thymalin doesn't; Thymalin was not studied for that...

    And for those bioregulators, the St. Petersburg Institute of Gerontology has a website, or look on Google for 'Khavison peptides'... you'll find one website with all the studies that he made, he described all the peptides [Dr. Vladimir Khavison; https://khavinson-peptides.com/]. All the studies he made were on injectable peptides, the pure peptides; but, probably for legal reasons, in Russia what are sold in pharmacies and on the internet are capsules of the extract of the gland that yes have some of the peptide but very poorly absorbed... [So if you have 10 mg of the extract,] how many mg of the peptide do you have in 10 mg of the extract?..."

    "Isn't it kind of like using desiccated thyroid instead of using T3 or T4? So you would have some benefit maybe from having all those compounds in it."

    "...There might be some cofactor in the extract that makes the whole thing work better, so I would take the extract for all those cofactors maybe we don't know about, and take the peptide that we know does work so you would get both...

    One other thing: in the Khavinson studies, when it says they were using Epitalon and Thymalin at the same time, it doesn't mean they were using them at the same time; it could be you use Epitalon for three weeks, three months after you use the Thymalin, three months after you use the Epitalon again, and you rotate like that. It just meant taken at the same time in that yearly or study time frame. Now when I do design some long-term anti-aging program where I do rotations, I do that: I say 20 days of Epitalon, for example, and three months after another bioregulator, and Epitalon again etc. And you can do them more at the same time, but it doesn't have to be like today at the same time."


    Thymulin Discussion with Jean-Francois Tremblay from CanLab
    by Nathalie Niddam
    May 12, 2020

    2:48 -- Desiccated thymus will have thymulin peptides in it

    "Thymulin, being one of the native peptides from the thymus..."

    28:01 -- Using Thymulin and Thymosin alpha 1 at the same time or at different times

    "So would you cycle [Thymulin] with Thymosin alpha 1 then? Because they're very similar, right?"


    "I'm thinking you might do Thymulin once, then you might do Thymosin alpha 1, then --"

    "Yeah you can do that -- but there is a reason [not to]. One, it's not therapeutic. My point of view is you do [one peptide] for as long as you need until you're healed, basically. I like to cycle everything. Why [not use] two? Because we do develop antibodies to peptides. But most of the time those antibodies are inactive. Usually you get active antibodies for bigger peptides; because the body sees them bigger, it recognizes them as something that could be more of a threat. But most of the time it's inactive. But the possibility is always there. So by cycling then you kind of avoid that possibility of overusing the peptides not therapeutically."


    Love Your Liver Episode: Bioregulators and peptides to support the Liver with Jean-Francois...
    Nathalie Niddam
    Dec 7, 2020

    10:00 -- Liver bioregulator peptide Livagen dosing

    "The bioregulators, depending on your age and stage we talk about doing maybe one or two or three cycles a year."

    "Those are preventative protocols, which usually call for twice a year basic dosage that's pretty much the same for all of them that people know already. If you want to use it to treat a condition related to that organ, you're looking at a higher dosage for a bit longer period of time

    "So how high-dose would you get though? A typical bioregulator is 5 mg a day for about --"

    "Yeah for 20 days, so 5 to 10 mg every day, or it could be 10 mg every second or third day, sometimes for a total of 50 mg, sometimes for a total of 100. Basically a protocol is 10 to 20 days for a total of 100 mg. What I've seen in therapeutic use: we're looking at 20-40 mg per day to get a strong therapeutic effect from those peptides... For many reasons, one being the cost of therapy, you may not use that full dosage for the whole therapy, maybe for a month you kind of kickstart the whole processes of regulating and then maybe drop back to a lower dosage..."


    Peptides for Brain, Neuropathy, BioRegulators - Livagen, Pancreagen, Cardiogen, Pinealon & Cortagen
    Nathalie Niddam
    Jan 29, 2020

    41:22 -- Pancreagen

    "Pancreagen impressed me because they did one study with rats or mice where they made them Type 1 diabetic. They gave them a drug that kills the cell in the pancreas that produces insulin; so they made them full-fledged Type 1 diabetic. There was a control Type 1 diabetic group and a group that they gave the Pancreagen peptide... They did two courses of Pancreagen within a month for two weeks or ten days each, and after one month the morning sugar levels of the Type 1 diabetic mice given the Pancreagen was back to normal... So they cured Type 1 diabetes in those mice. I never saw any human studies... so I wouldn't go as far as saying we have the cure for Type 1 diabetes, but for sure there is an effect."

    "Nobody's done any studies on this with humans, after that mouse study?"

    "Maybe Khavinson did [Dr. Vladimir Khavinson in Russia]. I'm sure he's using it but he didn't publish anything in humans; or not in mainstream journals
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  12. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    And peptides in animal proteins can be made bioactive from fermentation (search online some combo of "bioactive peptides", "meat", "milk", "fermentation", "lactic acid").

    So does fermenting desiccated organ supplements in milk or another lactic acid-fermented drink release from the proteins in that organ the same peptides that Khavinson extracted from the animal organs and made into the current "bioregulator" products?

    - Because Khavinson's bioregulator peptides were originally extracted from animal organs;
    - and the fermentation of animal proteins releases bioactive peptides;
    - and the research about that is usually using lactic acid bacteria;
    - and lactic acid bacteria can develop in fermented milk or fermented bee pollen (proportional bee pollen in water can ferment);
    - and fermented raw undesiccated beef organs (a.k.a. high meat) might be unpalatable, and there can be risks from some things that might develop depending on temperature, air flow, etc conditions that can affect how the fermentation develops and depending how healthy the organ was before fermentation (for example if the animal had some parasites);
    - and lactic acid bacteria regulates the development of other maybe harmful kinds of bacteria during fermentation (and I think probably would also regulate development of parasites, fungi, other maybe harmful things that could grow on raw beef organs fermenting without salt or lactic acid bacteria?);

    >>> desiccated beef organs could be added to and fermented in raw milk or bee pollen + water;
    >>> the lactic acid bacteria would regulate the fermentation process and so reduce the risks of fermentation of organs;
    >>> and the lactic acid fermentation would release some bioactive peptides from the organ that might not be released if the desiccated organ is digested without having been fermented beforehand.

    >>> Depending how much peptides there are in how much desiccated organ compared to the dosages of isolated peptides that are injected (I don't know), it might be a cost-effective way to get a variety of bioactive peptides that would help regulate many organs like using many of the isolated bioregulator peptides would.


    So, for example, this desiccated beef thymus


    added to fermenting milk or sauerkraut or something with lactic acid (as it's fermenting), would release bioactive peptides from the thymus proteins that are like using the Thymalin thymus bioregulator?

    And Khavinson's Epithalamin (most famous peptide he's researched) is made from pineal gland, and by regulating the pineal it regulates lots of body functions. So...


    Per 1 serving (1/30 of total):
    Hypothalamus 1300 mg (39 g total)
    Pituitary 130 mg (3.9 g total)
    Pineal 30 mg (900 mg total)

    ...there'll be a variety of proteins in those glands, and fermentation will release some bioactive peptides that are different than what digesting it normally would do (?), and some of that variety of peptides might regulate those glands and so help regulate a lot of body functions like Khavinson's Epithalamin can but better?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  13. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021 at 5:11 PM
  14. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

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