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Dan2's Journal

Discussion in 'My Optimal Journal' started by Dan2, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Yes, Dan's Eco friendly Tiara is good but .....I would much rather take a ride with you on Tiara :D:alien::alien:
    JanSz likes this.
  2. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    @JanSz posted here

    "...We live mostly on energy released by water synthesis that happens mostly in mitochondrial matrix and some in perixosomes. That is the water that eventually helps in production of ATP by nanomotors. That ATP daily production nears total body weight of individual.
    The matrix water is a fourth phase water, have nothing to do with the water we consume. Those waters never mix in mitochondria.
    When at rest we produce 7437 liters of matrix water. 7437 kilograms.
    When working hard we may make up to 3x that much.
    The amount of that water is about the same as if blood going thru the heart was always made of fresh water.
    That water is synthesizing from hydrogen that comes from food, with oxygen from the breath.
    H2 + 1/2O2=H2O
    2kg + 16kg=18kg
    7437/9=826.33 kg hydrogen is burned over 24hr (at rest)
    When one kg of hydrogen is burned it releases 33920kcal/kg

    Body at rest uses 1358 kWh over a day (to stay alive)..."

    Maybe hydrogen gas therapy being beneficial for the variety of things it is -- seems like maybe all systems in the body?
    -- is because of plentifully available hydrogen for matrix water production. There are some testimonials of people needing to eat less when inhaling hydrogen gas regularly. Maybe the plentiful hydrogen being available directly without food needing to be digested is the cleanest, most efficient way for the metabolism to get what it needs to combine with oxygen for matrix water production.

    But maybe also, like @Sue-UK has said, hydrogen out of context of how the digestive system usually gets it could weaken signaling for functions that do things in that usual context and then what dependency could that make. LIke maybe if nutrients in foods (that the digestive system usually gets hydrogen from) are used to support the metabolic steps leading to the combining of hydrogen in the food with oxygen, instead of just the usefulness of inhaled hydrogen being limited by nutrients available for supporting the combining, and so maybe instead of just the inhaled hydrogen being exhaled as excess because of rate-limiting of the combining by limited amounts of some nutrients, then maybe (I don't know why; just guessing) the plentiful simplified just hydrogen being available to combine with oxygen (simplified meaning one of the things closest to the step of the combination) could change what the metabolism does with the things that would usually be involved in the steps leading to the combination, like because it's adapted to those things being needed to lead to the combination usually then it's like the metabolism is made to assume those things (nutrients, or maybe something more specific with electron transport that I don't know much about) have done something and then that would affect the use of those things in ways other than for matrix water production.....?

    (More thoughts about harmful adaptations to inhaling hydrogen...) If the body adapts to inhaling hydrogen, so it stops making an effect, within a day after however many hours a day, does it mean that the adaptation is quick because of how much the hydrogen (at low concentration, when breathing enough oxygen too) is potentially harmful when affecting the metabolism (or something else?) too often, too consistently, and then that compensation becomes a problem; or does the ability to adapt within a day to consistent low-concentration mean the hydrogen's a hormetic gentle enough that the adaptation to it probably won't need harmful compensations, and so even inhaling it so much each day that it loses its effect wouldn't make harmful side effects from compensations of the adaptation?
    (I'm assuming the adaptation is within a day of constant inhalation; I'm not sure but I think I remember reading that about it.)
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  3. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    All possibly good guesses.
    I am only wondering why @Jack Kruse is not picking my statement:
    Body at rest uses 1358 kWh over a day (to stay alive),
    shread it to pieces
    agree with it.

    Sunlight, even equatorial noon sunlight is a minimal amount of energy when compared to 1358 kWh/day.
    He still brings dark skin as being due to equatorial sunlight
    says nothing
    about black skin of white polar bear or Inuits.
    Hopefully that guy on internet will look my comment over and think about.
    It is easy to talk about body weight of ATP produced every day (and do nothing more about it).
    A little harder to covert it into calories (look at results) and realize that some processes may need rethinking.

    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  4. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    (this isn't in response to the hydrogen and matrix water stuff)

    “Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones by Ray Peat”



    Pregnenolone, which is the raw material for producing many of the hormones of stress and adaptation, was known as early as 1934, but for several years it was considered to be an "inert" substance. A reason for this belief is that it was first tested on healthy young animals. Since these animals were already producing large amounts of pregnenolone (in the brain, adrenal glands, and gonads), additional pregnenolone had no effect.

    In the 1940s, pregnenolone was tested in people who were sick or under stress, and it was found to have a wide range of beneficial actions, but the drug industry never had much interest in it. Its very generality made it seem unlike a drug, and its natural occurrence made it impossible to patent. Thus, many synthetic variants, each with a more specialized action and some serious side effects, came to be patented and promoted for use in treating specific conditions. The drug companies created an atmosphere in which many people felt that each disease should have a drug, and each drug, a disease. The side effects of some of those synthetic hormones were so awful that many people came to fear them. For example, synthetic varieties of "cortisone" can destroy immunity, and can cause osteoporosis, diabetes, and rapid aging, with loss of pigment in the skin and hair, and extreme thinning of the skin.

    Natural pregnenolone is present in young people of both sexes at a very high concentration, and one reason for the large amount produced in youth is that it is one of our basic defenses against the harmful side effects that an imbalance of even our natural hormones can produce. In excess, natural cortisone or estrogen can be dangerous, but when there is an abundance of pregnenolone, their side effects are prevented or minimized.

    In a healthy young person or animal, taking even a large dose of pregnenolone has no hormone-like or drug-like action at all. It is unique in this way. But if the animal or person is under stress, and producing more cortisone than usual, taking pregnenolone causes the cortisone to come down to the normal level. After the age of 40 or 45, it seems that everyone lives in a state of continuous "stress," just as a normal part of aging. This coincides with the body's decreased ability to produce an abundance of pregnenolone.

    When aging rats are given a supplement of pregnenolone, it immediately improves their memory and general performance. Human studies, as early as the 1940s, have also demonstrated improved performance of ordinary tasks. It is now known that pregnenolone is one of the major hormones in the brain. It is produced by certain brain cells, as well as being absorbed into the brain from the blood. It protects brain cells from injury caused by fatigue, and an adequate amount has a calming effect on the emotions, which is part of the reason that it protects us from the stress response that leads to an excessive production of cortisone. People feel a mood of resilience and an ability to confront challenges.

    Many people have noticed that pregnenolone has a "face-lifting" action. This effect seems to be produced by improved circulation to the skin, and by an actual contraction of some muscle-like cells in the skin. A similar effect can improve joint mobility in arthritis, tissue elasticity in the lungs, and even eyesight. Many studies have shown it to be protective of "fibrous tissues" in general, and in this connection it was proven to prevent the tumors that can be caused by estrogen.

    Pregnenolone is largely converted into two other "youth-associated" protective hormones, progesterone and DHEA. At the age of 30, both men and women produce roughly 30 to 50 mg. of pregnenolone daily. When taken orally, even in the powdered form, it is absorbed fairly well. One dose of approximately 300 mg (the size of an aspirin tablet) keeps acting for about a week, as absorption continues along the intestine, and as it is "recycled" in the body. Part of this long lasting effect is because it improves the body's ability to produce its own pregnenolone. It tends to improve function of the thyroid and other glands, and this "normalizing" effect on the other glands helps to account for its wide range of beneficial effects.


    DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) has a technical-sounding name because it has never been identified with a single dominant function, in spite of its abundance in the body. Many researchers still think of it as a substance produced by the adrenal glands, but experiments show that animals without adrenals are able to produce it in normal amounts. Much of it is formed in the brain (from pregnenolone), but it is probably produced in other organs, including the skin. The brain contains a much higher concentration of DHEA than the blood does.

    In old age, we produce only about 5% as much as we do in youth. This is about the same decrease that occurs with progesterone and pregnenolone.The other hormones (for example, cortisone) do not decrease so much; as a result, our balance shifts continually during aging toward dominance by hormones such as cortisone, which use up more and more body substance, without rebuilding it. Protection against the toxic actions of these specialized hormones is a major function of DHEA and the other youth-associated hormones.

    For example, starvation, aging, and stress cause the skin to become thin and fragile. An excess of cortisone--whether it is from medical treatment, or from stress, aging, or malnutrition--does the same thing. Material from the skin is dissolved to provide nutrition for the more essential organs. Other organs, such as the muscles and bones, dissolve more slowly, but just as destructively, under the continued influence of cortisone. DHEA blocks these destructive effects of cortisone, and actively restores the normal growth and repair processes to those organs, strengthening the skin and bones and other organs. Stimulation of bone-growth by DHEA has been demonstrated in vitro (in laboratory tests), and it has been used to relieve many symptoms caused by osteoporosis and arthritis, even when applied topically in an oily solution.

    Estrogen is known to produce a great variety of immunological defects, and DHEA, apparently by its balancing and restorative actions, is able to correct some of those immunological defects, including some "autoimmune" diseases.

    It is established that DHEA protects against cancer, but it isn't yet understood how it does this. It appears to protect against the toxic cancer- producing effects of excess estrogen, but its anti-cancer properties probably involve many other functions.

    Diabetes can be produced experimentally by certain poisons which kill the insulin-producing cells in the pancreas. Rabbits were experimentally made diabetic, and when treated with DHEA their diabetes was cured. It was found that the insulin-producing cells had regenerated. Many people with diabetes have used brewer's yeast and DHEA to improve their sugar metabolism. In diabetes, very little sugar enters the cells, so fatigue is a problem. DHEA stimulates cells to absorb sugar and to burn it, so it increases our general energy level and helps to prevent obesity.

    Young people produce about 12 to 15 milligrams of DHEA per day, and that amount decreases by about 2 mg. per day for every decade after the age of 30. This is one of the reasons that young people eat more without getting fat, and tolerate cold weather better: DHEA, like the thyroid hormone, increases our heat production and ability to burn calories. At the age of 50, about 4 mg. of DHEA per day will usually restore the level of DHEA in the blood to a youthful level. It is important to avoid taking more than needed, since some people (especially if they are deficient in progesterone, pregnenolone, or thyroid) can turn the excess into estrogen or testosterone, and large amounts of those sex hormones can disturb the function of the thymus gland and the liver.

    People who have taken an excess of DHEA have been found to have abnormally high estrogen levels, and this can cause the liver to enlarge, and the thymus to shrink.

    One study has found that the only hormone abnormality in a groupt of Alzheimers patients' brains was an excess of DHEA. In cell culture, DHEA can cause changes in glial cells resembling those seen in the aging brain. These observations suggest that DHEA should be used with caution. Supplements of pregnenolone and thyroid seem to be the safest way to optimize DHEA production.


    The Youth Steroids: Pregnenolone, Progesterone & DHEA [Generative Energy #8] (38:40)

    "...As mainstream medicine has realized recently, pregnenolone has activities of its own. For a long time, from the 1960s to early 2000s, it was considered an inactive precursor steroid -- almost like cholesterol -- not having any activity of its own. But if you look at older studies, like between 1910 and 1940, you'll see that pregnenolone was successfully used for the treatment of a variety of inflammatory conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis; psoriasis, which is an autoimmune condition; and even multiple sclerosis, which at the time wasn't known as such -- it was called a chronic demylineating degenerative condition..."

    "I think DHEA is okay to take any time in the day. I would take pregnenolone in the morning and progesterone at night. And you can combine them; you can combine pregnenolone with DHEA, pregnenolone with progesterone and DHEA. There was a study done back in the 1980s which showed that pregnenolone greatly amplified the effects of whatever steroid it happens to be co-administered with; so if you take some pregnenolone with DHEA you likely will be getting the effects of a much larger dose of DHEA without the potential of side effects."


    Pregnenolone solubility in DMSO and alcohol


    22 mg/mL in DMSO or ethanol at 77F. Same in alcohol as DMSO -- 2.2 grams soluble per 3.38 oz.

    - 1.75 L of vodka has (1750 mL * 40%) 700 mL of alcohol in it
    - Pregnenolone solubility is 22 mg/mL in alcohol
    - 22 mg/mL * 700 mL = 15400 mg
    -->> So 15.4 grams of pregnenolone soluble in 1.75 L of vodka
    -->> To dose 50 mg of pregnenolone, how much vodka?
    - 15400 mg pregnenolone / 50 mg doses = 308 doses
    - 1750 mL of vodka (including the 60% water) / 308 doses = 5.68 mL per dose
    - 5.68 mL = 0.1920636 ounce
    -->> So when 15 grams of pregnenolone is added to a 1.75 L bottle of vodka, 1/5 of an ounce of the vodka has ~50 mg of pregnenolone in it

    edit: The water in the vodka makes the pregnenolone a lot less soluble in the vodka. Maybe putting the pregnenolone in 190 proof alcohol would make those calculations accurate.

    (Pure pregnenolone powder https://healthnatura.com/pregnenolone/ )
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  5. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    There are lots of stories about pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, and DHEAs.
    To me, they are hardly useful but often they prevented me from achieving some health benefits.
    I have greatly improved my situation when I started testing using
    (Available by mail, using cash, no script need, order over internet, so available all around the world.)
    Massive amounts of educational videos available, no charge.

    One of the bs is about DHEA, see picture below.
    With DUTCH testing
    I am using 300mg/day of DHEA pills (for years).

    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  6. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    "pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, and DHEAs.
    To me, they are hardly useful but often they prevented me from achieving some health benefits."

    What? How?
    So, (emphasized from the article above) "...pregnenolone is one of our basic defenses against the harmful side effects that an imbalance of even our natural hormones can produce..." -- do you agree with that? Did you have problems with just pregnenolone or combinations?

    (emphasized) "[pregnenolone] improves the body's ability to produce its own pregnenolone"
    Maybe? Do you know more about the context of that?

    (emphasized) "In a healthy young person or animal, taking even a large dose of pregnenolone has no hormone-like or drug-like action at all. It is unique in this way."
    Do you know if pregnenolone overdose is more likely than that makes it seem?

    The DHEA and your test results -- you tried less and increased it to 300 mg?

    (emphasized) "There was a study done back in the 1980s which showed that pregnenolone greatly amplified the effects of whatever steroid it happens to be co-administered with; so if you take some pregnenolone with DHEA you likely will be getting the effects of a much larger dose of DHEA without the potential of side effects."

    Not your experience with test results?
  7. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    When you mix good information with wrong guesses you get the advice of using 4mg/day DHEA.
    The benefit ----- you look smart, nobody got hurt.
    Unless you count the wasted time of the reader.

  8. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Are you saying you just know the 4 mg thing is wrong and don't know about the other questions so don't want to waste my time guessing (and also implying yeah of course you increased to 300 mg while testing)? There are too many variables for it to be worthwhile to guess how what got you good test results did? Do you mean I'm lazy for not researching the questions I asked you instead of asking you? Do you mean I shouldn't care about any amount of supplemented DHEA because I'm not over 50? If I don't want to spend the money on getting tests then I'm wasting my time doing anything that isn't making money and so wasting people's time on this forum until I have the money for tests? I asked you about that article before and you said to get tests and now even for different questions you're implying your advice is still get a blood test first? Because I asked you about it in a message before posting about it on the forum that means I don't care if it's helpful to people reading it and I'm just acting like that's why I'm posting it while trying to get people to give me answers that I could find in things that have already been written and so not be wasting someone's time who has to answer it to me? But if I am not only asking for myself then what does a blood test of mine matter? Because the blood tests let us keep it more simple than a bunch of crazy questions like this? You've already posted what would answer those questions (in my previous post)? I'm wasting Pablo's time by posting in his thread without having read all the details in that thread to know better if it's relevant to him?

    Or you think they're good questions (and I'm paranoid)? Are those guesses better?
  9. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Oy Oy Oy Oy.
    Paranoid, yes, I think most of us here are paranoid to some extent, especially me.
    I hope I have not offended you or anybody else.
    If I did, pleeeeese excuse me. You are definitely a nice (very smart) person and definitely not lazy.
    And thank you for all kinds of goodies you have provided in your posts.

    I still think that a 4mg dose of DHEA is hurtful.
    Hurtful in many ways to about 100% people except for those who pocketed (hard earned $$) for that kind of advice.
    I think that 4mg of DHEA/day hurt will come in a variety of ways.
    It will not change anything in anybody, healthy or sick, but it will waste their time.

    I really think highly about DUTCHtest.com
    money well spend.
    Even with DUTCH results in hand, I am still guessing, but I hope that those guesses are at a much different level than those without those test results.
  10. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Sorry for thinking maybe you were saying I was wasting yours or other people's time. And I was sincerely being insecure about feeling dumb about the ambiguity of what you said and questioning if I'm being dumb. I wasn't sure if when you used "you" you meant me or any person who might read that article, and if you meant me then I thought maybe you were implying with the cryptic phrasing that there's something I should try to figure out that'd be better than if you explained it (and then the "..." is a lot to handle), so when I said, "Are those guesses better?" I meant I was really trying to understand better what the "wrong guesses" were even though I'm guessing and meaning by that to show appreciation (but in a weird paranoid way) for what I interpreted as your riddle. And I'm uncomfortable with you saying I'm very smart because I think you're smarter (which is why the "..." makes me insane) (but I'm only able to recognize that because of how smart I am, I guess, so.. okay.)

    I got a bottle of 5 mg micronized DHEA tablets, and I feel something from one (I mean could be placebo but..). Maybe it's because I've never supplemented any other hormones. It could also not be a good thing to be that sensitive to it. I got a few acne spots from using the DHEA 5 mg twice a day (after trying 5 mg once a day) and it stopped when going back to 5 mg once (and I haven't had any acne since being a teenager, so I'm pretty sure that's what caused it).

    I'm also trying small doses of the pregnenolone vodka (~50 mg) and feel that. The most noticeable is my posture, enough that I'm standing an inch or two taller from the feeling of more strength in my back and other joints.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
    JanSz likes this.
  11. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    I think its easier to swap "sunlight" to "cosmic radiation" which includes day and night. The mitochondria are an internal radiation source, radiation that can be used by melanin 24/7. The Inuit are more likely to have higher mitochondrial density than the say the Hazda, but less melanin on the skin surface. They would rely more on the internal radiation source because of temperature, but their survival depends on clothes that mimic animals adapted to the cold. In the case of the polar bear, the black skin would be capable of absorbing and using cosmic radiation coming down the magnetic field lines, plus any mitochondrial heat loss would be minimised by being reflected back from the white crystalline fur and being reabsorbed via the black skin. Their danger is from overheating and dehydration in summer, particularly as fat is their main source of water.


    "Given that melanin is not only capable of separating the water molecule, but is also capable of reuniting it, generating 4 high-energy electrons for every two molecules of re-formed water; the system works like a mixing cell fuel that produces its own hydrogen; which facilitates that the batteries to generate energy for hundreds or thousands of years without the need of recharging them somehow."

    Dan2 and JanSz like this.
  12. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Nice article, thank you.
    Possibly the green peace movement may have their day, some day.
    I thought you or someone have posted it previously in other discussions. Chernobyl, black mushrooms?????
    For experimenting, melanin from squids would suffice.
    But where from melanin would come in industrial applications?
    Can melanin be made on industrial scale using minimal amounts of energy?
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  13. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Maintaining the melanin-water battery at youthful levels would probably delay the necessity of having to rely on things like inhaling hydrogen gas, using hydrogen infused water or concentrating on encouraging particular hydrogen emitting microbiome species. None of us get out of here alive, but I'm wary of having to do anything too early .... The system seems to be built round melanin (made in the body or available from a wide range of food sources), and that can use either matrix water OR water we drink. The risks with inhaling the gas/hydrogen infused water/microbiome sources of hydrogen is that what happens if they are not available? Depending on how you are supplementing hydrogen, it could be lack of funds, fasting, food shortages... Or not available for a particularly stressful time, for example a stay in hospital ..... If inhaling hydrogen does nothing to maintain or repair the melanin-water endogenous hydrogen fuel making equipment in the body, theoretically I could "feel better" until I don't. :confused:
    Dan2 likes this.
  14. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    It could come from the paper and wood industry, as its a component of tree bark. :)
  15. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    IIRC the Nenet use chaga mushrooms, which I've found easy to source, and cheaper than squid ink. Squid ink (culinary sources usually from cuttle fish) is mentioned in Eat to Beat Disease by William Li ... Done with mice stem cells in the bone marrow blah blah but "this study showed squid ink has the ability to protect and increase the regenerative capacity in stem cells following radiation injury."


    "Lab research on the ink has shown it can have antioxidant, anti angiogenic, stem cell protecting and immune enhancing effects. Squid ink can even protect the gut microbiome against the side effects of cancer chemotherapy."
    JanSz likes this.
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    I looked into amazon and found this squid ink.
    Have a best price I could find and have good reviews.
    I have ordered that ink.
    What to do with it, how to eat it, how much per day?
    How to figure if eating it makes any difference?
    It looks like after opening I will have to pour it into ice cub tray and freeze it.
    Is one ice cube size of squid ink ok to eat daily?

    Amazon.com : Marky's Cuttlefish Squid Ink Imported from Spain - 17.6 ounce - Food Coloring : Spices : Grocery & Gourmet Food



    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  17. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Most recipes I've seen include it in pasta or rice but this one is just for a sauce for a squid dish, 45g of ink for 4 servings. So 10-12g would probably be a good starting point. If you ever make a fish stock, or a survivors soup, it could make an easy addition. :)

    JanSz likes this.
  18. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    About this:
    "Given that melanin is not only capable of separating the water molecule, but is also capable of reuniting it, generating 4 high-energy electrons for every two molecules of re-formed water; the system works like a mixing cell fuel that produces its own hydrogen..."

    Plasma Orbital Expansion of the Electrons in Water by Chris Eckman 2010.pdf

    intro 1.png

    intro 2.png

    (no text ommitted)

    n=3 d sub shell.png


    n=3 orbital.png

    Eckman is saying "trigonal bipyramidal and linear", which seems like maybe those are two different things, but on page 2 2nd paragraph from the bottom of the left column he says, "In Brown’’s Gas the new trigonal bipyramidal (linear) water molecule will be..." So when he says, "The water molecule shape goes from the tetrahedral and bent (4 electron pairs, 2 being used and 2 not being used) to the trigonal bipyramidal (5 electron pairs, 2 being used and 3 not being used) and linear, this causes the shape change", he means that the change is from tetrahedral to one new form, not two, and that one new form has a new electron pair that isn't being used.

    (continued next post)
  19. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub


    "Tetrahedral Electron Pair Geometry Examples:
    In methane, ammonia, water and hydrogen fluoride, the electron pair geometry is tetrahedral. All have four pairs of electrons about the central atom (C, N, O, or F). See graphic on middle left.
    In water, O has 2 bonds and 2 lone pairs of electrons..."

    tetrahedral H2O electron pair geometry.png

    trigonal bipyramidal geometry.png

    So the "linear" that Eckman says is just referring to the straight 180 degree part in that trigonal bipyramidal molecule shape.


    So (back to the pictures in the previous post) each water molecule in Brown's Gas (Brown's Gas made in a way that doesn't separate the gases with a membrane and so does allow for the "electrically-expanded water" / isomer plasma-state water to be made) has one more electron pair, so two extra electrons (If I'm understanding the molecular geometry and electron pair stuff). And those electrons are in the n=3 d sub-shell, so a higher energy level than what's usually in water. (Apparently n=3 d sub shell; I was reading about the electron shells and subshells and it seemed like electrons would go to n=4 shell s subshell because of that being less energy than going to n=3 shell d subshell (Figure 1 here https://opentextbc.ca/chemistry/chapter/6-4-electronic-structure-of-atoms-electron-configurations/) but :\ Point is, higher energy level.)

    "Given that melanin is not only capable of separating the water molecule, but is also capable of reuniting it, generating 4 high-energy electrons for every two molecules of re-formed water; the system works like a mixing cell fuel that produces its own hydrogen..."

    ----->>> Four high-energy electrons for every two molecules of re-formed water is maybe the same as the isomer plasma-state water in Brown's Gas having an extra electron pair per molecule.

    "Melanin is not only capable of separating the water molecule, but is also capable of reuniting it."

    In a Brown's Gas electrolyzer that doesn't use a membrane and so doesn't separate the H2 and O2 gasses, the water is separated into H, O, H2, O2, H2O vapor, and plasma-state H2O (and maybe other things I don't know about). It's the isomer plasma-state H2O that's trigonal bipyramidal and has the extra electron pair per molecule.

    So when melanin reunites water that it had separated, is that reunited water plasma-state? So melanin separates water into..? maybe the H, O, H2, O2, and H20 vapor in Brown's Gas (or some of those)? And then it reunites (some of? I don't know which) those plus electrons into isomer plasma-state water molecules? If it reunites water into plasma-state molecules, does it also create other forms of water that Brown's Gas doesn't include?

    I don't know if Brown's Gas electrolysis makes the isomer plasma water molecules from recombination of things from separated water molecules, or if the normal water molecules are made directly into isomer plasma molecules by electrical excitation?
    From the 2nd paragraph of Eckman's paper: "One of the key differences in Browns gas is that some of the water molecules go into an excited isomer plasma state..."

    I haven't read Arturo Solis-Herrera's book yet (spent the $50 on Christmas gifts instead), or the free articles. @Sue-UK , so melanin makes the 4-extra-electrons-per-2-molecules-of-water water from recombining after separation of a normal H2O molecule? It's not that the melanin is a catalyst that mixes with the water molecule somehow and that allows for electrical excitation of the normal water molecule directly into a new molecular geometry? I don't know what I mean by "mixes with the water molecule somehow"; I'm trying to compare it to the way the Brown's Gas electrolyzer makes the isomer plasma water (but I also don't know if that's made in the electrolysis from separation and recombination or directly from electrical excitation of a normal water molecule into isomer plasma without separation). What I'm getting at is...

    I wonder if melanin can be used instead of sodium hydroxide (lye) for the catalyst in electrolysis?

    And also, what else the melanin making the isomer plasma water in the body (assuming that's what the 4-extra-electrons-per-2-water-molecules is) is doing that ingesting the Brown's Gas might not be doing?
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  20. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    More about the isomer plasma-state water

    What is ExW and why does it matter? by George Wiseman


    "ExW forms in the middle of the liquid, between the electrodes and if you insert a ‘membrane’ to separate the gases (like traditional electrolyzers do) then the ExW forming ‘effect’ (water absorbing electrons) doesn’t happen.
    So the only way I know to make the ExW, is to make and keep all the gasses together (NO membrane)...
    We can confirm the existence of and measure the volume of ExW in Brown’s Gas by
    drying the gas (to remove water moisture) and use mass spectrometry to see that a gaseous form of water (that is not water vapor or steam) is still there (it will not condense if cooled)."

    "ExW is what makes Brown’s Gas (aka HHO, HydrOxy, etc.) more effective for health application than using straight molecular hydrogen (H2). Because the body (and particularly bodies that are ill) NEEDS the energy (electrons) that the ExW provides. The ExW literally GIVES the body ENERGY it needs to heal.
    Bodies that are ill usually have compromised energy generation systems and their energy reserves have been depleted. Adding energy INDEPENDENTLY of those systems allows the body to heal and re-start it’s own energy generation systems.
    It’s good to give the body the food (hydrogen) it needs to heal, but it also helps if you give the body the ENERGY it needs to use the ‘food’ to heal."

    ----> Does adding the electrons in the context of the isomer plasma-state water "re-start the body's own energy generation systems"? Compared to what Sue's saying about possible reliance on a hydrogen gas machine from the weakening of the body's melanin-using ways of making energy with water. Maybe inhaling just hydrogen gas could disregulate something long-term but when there are the isomer plasma water molecules too (in a Brown's Gas electrolyzer instead of a machine that uses a membrane to make just H2 and O2 gases) it does support the maintenance, the ongoing regulation, of the melanin-using ways of making energy with water? It reminds me of the thing about supplemented pregnenolone supporting the body's ability to start making more pregnenolone.

    "The BEST (current) way to ‘measure’ the ExW is by inference. The machines produce too much gas.
    So the gas production is ‘over-unity’ when you compare the electrical input to the gas production using Faraday Law. For example, the ER50 is 130% efficient. So this ‘extra gas’ is the ExW. We are not ‘breaking’ or ‘violating’ or ‘disproving’ Faraday Laws. The ExW is formed independently of the Faraday Equations.

    I don't know what this means in context of the melanin and water energy stuff in the body, but seems like it might be a bit of an important connection.
    @JanSz Any thoughts about this related to what Boros says about how much energy the body makes when making water? If the melanin stuff in the body is making over-100% efficiency energy production because of making isomer plasma-state water molecules... does that help explain some of what Boros says?

    "Note: There are many people out there touting EZ water as the fourth state of water. This is incorrect. But it’s ‘caught on’ as per:
    [Gerald Pollack videos]
    And when I say the ExW is the Fourth Phase of Water I’m not comparing ExW to (Professor Gerald Pollack’s) EZ water.
    I am saying that ExW is an ACTUAL fourth Phase of Water.
    Gerald Pollack’s EZ ‘water’ is an interface phenomenon. I’ve conversed with Gerald Pollack asking WHY he called EZ water the ‘Fourth Phase of Water’ in his literature and and he said
    “We were trying to figure out a good name. The term 'exclusion zone' (EZ) was first suggested, and it seems to have caught on; but, it refers to a 'zone' rather than to a substance. So, it’s not ideal. Others call it H3O2, which is the putative chemical formula. That’s OK, but maybe somewhat arcane?”
    He and I went on to confirm that EZ water was NOT ACTUALLY the fourth phase of water because
    1. EZ water is H3O2, so it is not water, not H2O (any more than H2O2, hydrogen peroxide is water) and
    2. EZ ‘water’ is not a plasma; the fourth phase of matter is plasma.
    3. EZ water is a gel-like or semi-crystalline form of water. (I’d call it water phase 1.5 because it is in-between solid and liquid)

    Both Gerald Pollack and I define actual water as H2O.
    H2O as matter exists in four phases; solid (ice), liquid (water), gas (steam or water vapor) and plasma (ionized gas or ExW). Adding electrons (to make a negatively charged plasma) does not count as changing a molecule’s atoms, it’s simply a higher energy state of the same matter.
    EZ water is an AMAZING discovery but is not the fourth phase of water (a plasma). It could be considered another ‘phase of water’ in that is a ‘phase of water’ that forms in certain conditions (water associated with hydrophilic material combined with infrared energy).
    ExW is a negative plasma (extra electrons) form of water. It is water (still H2O) in a gaseous form that is not water vapor or steam (it does not condense when cooled).
    Gerald Pollack and I have talked and agreed on this. ExW (water as plasma) is an ACTUAL fourth phase of water.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021

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