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Dan2's Journal

Discussion in 'My Optimal Journal' started by Dan2, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    About Brown's Gas and molecular hydrogen gas therapies;
    these are Deepl auto-translations from German to English
    (after all that copy-pasting I have to show the results).

    Brown's Gas and the findings of medical hydrogen research by Dr. Elke Mohaupt German NEXUS Magazine #79 article excerpt

    NEXUS Magazine #75 - Brown's Gas by Walter Last with George Wiseman (English)
    NEXUS Magazine #75 - Die außergewöhnlichen Heilkräfte von Browns Gas (original German PDF)

    Experiments and self-experiments with Brown's gas by Horst Thuy German NEXUS Magazine #77 article

    (because you liked this post:
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    Marko Pollo likes this.
  2. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Another Deepl German to English translation

    Brown's Gas by Dennis Camera (translated from German) 49 pages - (mostly English)
    (table of contents page numbers are off)

    Brown's Gas (oder doch nur Knallgas?) - (original German)


    Brown's Gas summary (compilation of articles from George Wiseman's websites)
    ( https://eagle-research.life/ and https://eagle-research.com/ )


    Plasma Orbital Expansion of the Electrons in Water by Chris Eckman 2010
    (about "plasma state" aka "electrically-expanded" water)


    HYDROXY or "Brown's Gas" by Todd Knudtson


    Hydrogen Molecular Biology and Medicine edited by Xuejun Sun, Shigeo Ohta and Atsunori Nakao 2015
    (120 page book)

    Screen shot 2020-10-13 at 4.23.50 AM.png
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    John Schumacher and Marko Pollo like this.
  3. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Last edited: Mar 27, 2022
  4. Thank you @Dan2 in https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163725814000941
    They explore how hydrogen gas is used -

    Dan2 likes this.
  5. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    John Schumacher likes this.
  6. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Oct 15, 2020



    ---->> 11:30 - 29:08
    ---->> hydrogen being a selective antioxidant, hormetic prooxidant, and "adaptogenic redox modulator"


    inhaling hydrogen or drinking it in water, and dosages
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
    Anna Vargo likes this.
  7. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    @John Schumacher
    12/11/17/Mon Started drinking DDW
    Since we have started discussing DDW on this board I started drinking (only) DDW-25.
    First Preventa latter Qlarivia now (Hydro-Health 25)

    (Hydro-Health 25) comes in 1/2 liter plastic bottles.
    Bottle contains non-pressurized water.

    Discussions about providing body with additional hydrogen, makes me think of benefits (if any) of having those bottles pressurized with hydrogen.
    Process similar to having water pressurized with CO2.
    Eventually, to save on escaping hydrogen, the bottles could be changed to 0.25L size.
    If available, wonder if there would be big enough market for water packaged in such a way, so the seller would see some profit?

    From time to time I am getting e-mails from

    and reposting them on this thread:

    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Hi, Jan,

    I hope all is well,

    Thank you for continuing to promote our Hydro-Health water. I appreciate it.

    We considered this idea, but it seems that using a “machine” to add hydrogen to ddw would be a better idea, compared to rethinking the packaging. The added hydrogen is very volatile and must use metal cans, medical-grade, plastic pouches, and not BPA free plastic). Additionally, the water must be consumed in less than 10-15 minutes, and consumers do not usually do this.

    I believe that the information in this article is in line with what I tried to say: https://www.today.com/food/what-hydrogen-water-all-about-trendy-new-beverage-t174519

    When I say “machine,” I refer to those devices that are already available, such as: https://www.davincimedicalusa.com/echo-h2-pitcher

    We need to continue to investigate this idea. Perhaps partnering with one of the companies that produce or sell the “machines” won’t be a bad idea.

    However, at this time, I am not sure how we could do this, or if they could be interested in working together.

    Any idea?

    Thank you, and best regards,

    Adrian Buga

    Managing Director


    628 Ellen Drive, Winter Park

    FL 32789

    cell phone 919-949-7667


    From: Jan
    Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 10:15 AM
    To: EUROGATOR LLC-Innovative Science <innovative-science@eurogator.com>
    Subject: Re: Keep boosting your immune system and detox your body with 25 ppm and 50 ppm Health DEUTERIUM DEPLETED WATER


    There are discussions about benefits of additional hydrogen gas being added to DDW-25 water.

    Process similar to adding CO2 to make carbonated water.

    Wonder if you have considered that?


    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  9. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub



    Search on the page for "aluminum".

    "The magnitude of hydrogen permeability depends on the particular material and can vary by many orders of magnitude. Metals with face-centered cubic (FCC) crystal structure, such as austenitic stainless steel, copper, gold, nickel, and aluminum, tend to have low permeability compared with body-centered cubic (BCC) metals, such as low-alloy and carbon steels. The hydrogen permeability for several metals is given in Fig. 3.1 as a function of temperature. At elevated temperature and for large surface areas the rate of hydrogen permeation through the ferritic alloys can be quite substantial [23]. The non-ferrous alloys (aluminum, copper and gold) exhibit the lowest hydrogen permeability; in particular, gold is many orders of magnitude less than other metals."

    And scroll down to the graph, Figure 3.1

    Aluminum bottles are sometimes used for hydrogen drink products because it's the most affordable common material that'll keep some hydrogen in the bottle for a few months.

    There are also storage methods for hydrogen as a fuel:




    From testimonial examples I've seen, hydrogen inhalation, and moreso Brown's Gas inhalation, are more effective than just drinking hydrogen-infused water.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
    JanSz likes this.
  10. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    From "The Future of Immortality - Remaking Life and Death in Contemporary Russia" by Anya Bernstein, 2019

    "...heliobiology, a study of the Sun's effects on biological forms..."

    Screen shot 2020-11-15 at 12.43.03 PM.png
    JanSz likes this.
  11. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    About influenza
    from The Invisible Rainbow by Arthur Firstenberg
    excerpt attached
    Page 6 of the excerpt is where it starts being about influenza.
    There's also a good chapter in the book about the Spanish Flu of 1918 and radio waves. The ebook is on libgen.




    [no break]


    [no break]


    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
    JanSz likes this.
  12. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub



    JanSz likes this.
  13. Question: When making hydrogen water, how do you know you are not increasing the deuterium concentrate?
  14. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    edit: Sorry, I thought that question was to me. I have Iris set up to make my computer screen orange, so the white text in the quote box becomes orange and blends with the background color. I should probably read the quote boxes; soooo inconvenient to highlight it though.

    I don't know.
    I'm infusing the water with Brown's Gas with a keg aerator, not using the hydrogen water tablets.

    In "Brown's Gas Book One" by George Wiseman it says,

    "During electrolysis, the 'protium' or ordinary hydrogen atomic bonds are broken easier than the deuterium atomic bonds. As deuterium exists in ordinary water at about the ratio of 5000:1, this means a gradual buildup of heavy water in an electrolysis cell."​

    (And I don't know what affects the speed of the change of the ratio of protium to deuterium.)

    Also from "Brown's Gas Book One" by George Wiseman:

    "In electrolysis, we find that if we use the proper electrolyte as a catalyst, we can vastly reduce the amount of power required to split water. In this case I'll describe the use of sodium hydroxide (NaOH). Sodium hydroxide is commonly called lye and is a base solution...

    We need electrolytes that don't form noxious fumes, are effective in reducing power consumption, and have a net result of being unchanged in solution (true catalysts).

    These electrolytes oxidize on the anode and reduce on the cathode easier than pure water does by itself. Once split, these electrolyte compounds either directly or indirectly attack water to split it, or at least vastly reduce the power required to split it.

    Pure water requires a high voltage to split the molecules. Adding an electrolyte catalyst vastly reduces the voltage required to split the water.

    Hydrogen gas is formed at the cathode. Oxygen gas is formed at the anode. In between the plates there is a complex catalytic reaction involving the water, the sodium hydroxide (NaOH), and electron movement.

    During the process, the NaOH is split apart (an endothermic reaction), the resulting ions Na+ and OH- try to go to the cathode and anode respectively.

    Sodium (Na+) is extremely reactive to water, so much so that the metal (sodium) must be kept away from air in the laboratory because even water moisture in the air can cause oxidation violent enough to release quantities of hydrogen. The free sodium cation thus causes water to oxidize immediately on contact, reforming itself as sodium hydroxide (an exothermic reaction exactly balancing the endothermic reaction it took to split the sodium hydroxide).

    During an oxidation process, electrons are removed from the molecules being oxidized, so the NaOH now has its full set of electrons. The Na+ ripped an H+ from the H2O, leaving an OH- for itself. The resulting hydrogen cation (H+) heads for the cathode to pick up an electron (reduction reaction) to become a full mon-atomic hydrogen atom (H).

    In the process just described, the OH- anion was left alone while the Na+ cation and the H+ cation completed their part of the redox reaction. The OH- (formed when the NaOH is reduced) moves toward the positive plate (anode). When the OH- reaches the anode, it is oxidized (stripped of two electrons, turning H- into H+) and split into mon-atomic oxygen atom (O) and a hydrogen cation (H+). The hydrogen cation immediately leaves the vicinity of the anode on its way to the cathode. Often it will not go directly to the cathode; it will combine with an OH- and reform into water, then the water will be split again by Na+. When the H+ arrives at the cathode, it picks up the electron it needs to become a proper mon-atmoic hydrogen atom (H).

    The process is actually more complicated than I just described above because there are many interactions between the H2O, NaOH, OH-, Na+, H+, and any impurities in the solution. The actual electron flow between plates would look like a square dance 'pass your partner' as the molecules and compounds are constantly being reduced and oxidized between the plates. The important point to remember here is that both the oxygen and the hydrogen exist as stable mon-atomic atoms during a portion of the above dance."​

    So doesn't those two quotes together mean the deuterium stays in the electrolysis cell and the H2 gas molecules will have a balance of electrons and protons?

    The deuterium proportion, compared to normal hydrogen (protium), increases in the electrolysis cell because the availability of both positive and negative plates for oxidation or reduction in the electrolysis reactions means the amounts of protons and electrons for the reactions are available as the reactive atoms or compounds need them, and because the result of the electrolysis reactions outside the electrolysis cell are molecular gases and deuterium can't be a gas (right?) then the molecular gases being made from the electrolysis reactions and released through the aerator into the infused water won't include deuterium and deuterium proportion increases (keeps increasing?) in the water being electrolyzed..?

    Am I misunderstanding something about this: "...the availability of both positive and negative plates for oxidation or reduction in the electrolysis reactions means the amounts of protons and electrons for the reactions are available as the reactive atoms or compounds need them...", and my guess that that means deuterium increases in the solution being electrolyzed because its extra proton isn't used to make the output gases?
    And doesn't this:
    "During electrolysis, the 'protium' or ordinary hydrogen atomic bonds are broken easier than the deuterium atomic bonds. As deuterium exists in ordinary water at about the ratio of 5000:1, this means a gradual buildup of heavy water in an electrolysis cell."​
    imply the same thing? That deuterium can react like the other hydrogen (protium) in the electrolysis but the extra proton isn't used for the output? So there isn't deuterium in the output?

    --->>> Do you mean that as the concentration of deuterium increases in the water being electrolyzed, it changes the output gases, because of what's needed to break the deuterium atomic bonds (which increasingly are what's available for the reactions) changing some other reaction proportion or making a new reaction product in the water being electrolyzed and that then reacts and makes some other output? (I'm a little suspicious that you already know the answer to your question and you're trying to get me to figure something out about electrolysis or Brown's Gas instead of telling me.)

    After the second "Brown's Gas Book One" quote (that long indented one), he describes bond energy in Kcal during the redox reactions. Are you thinking something about that affects deuterium in the electrolysis reactions, output gases, or infused water; something about bond energy combined with the increasing deuterium concentration?

    Also, if the plasma state of water is in Brown's Gas, and it has a negative charge, then even if deuterium forms in the infused water somehow, would the plasma water's electrons react with the extra proton of the deuterium?
    Or could plasma water gas affect the deuterium content already in the water that's being infused? (Is that your trick question -- you read the "Plasma Orbital Expansion..." paper and you're thinking it could decrease deuterium of water it's infused into? And/or deuterium in the body, when drank or inhaled?)

    From "Plasma Orbital Expansion of the Electrons in Water" by Chris Eckman, 2010 (PDF of this is in a post of mine above in this thread):

    "Brown's Gas boasts a plethora of unusual characteristics that defy current chemistry. It has a cool flame of about 130°C (266°F), yet melts steel, brick and many other materials. Confusingly, research both confirms and rebuffs many claims about it, leading to a smorgasbord of theories today seeking to explain its unusual properties. One possible theory, currently gaining support even from establishment science, depicts plasma orbital expansion of the electron in a water molecule'. In this process, unlike electrolysis, the water molecule 'bends' into a linear, dipole-free geometry. This linear water molecule expands to gain electrons in the d sub-shell, and these extra electrons produce different effects on different target materials."
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  15. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Something else interesting from "Brown's Gas Book One" by George Wiseman:
    "Both the proton and the electron of atomic hydrogen have two possible directions of spin. In the hydrogen molecule (H2), the nuclear spins of the atoms may be either parallel or antiparallel. This allows two types of hydrogen molecules, orthohydrogen and parahydrogen, the usual ratio being about three to one. Parahydrogen can be formed from orthohydrogen at very low temperatures in the presence of a catalyst."​
    I saw something in a video about homemade Brown's Gas generator designs that the design can affect the proportion of orthohydrogen and parahydrogen in the output. I think it was said in context of the proportions affecting engine performance, or the amount of some waste product and so how often maintenance needs to be done, when the Brown's Gas is used for a car fuel system. Not sure if that's true.
  16. @Dan2 & @JanSz -> For the production of heavy water, the concentration of deuterium can be augmented by means of distillation, electrolysis or by means of the so-called Girdler sulfide process, an isotopic exchange process of hydrogen atoms between H2S and H2O over several temperature steps.
    Bottomline: Is it good to make your own Heavy Water? Maybe not.
    However, the off gas of the electrolysis method may not be the deuterium form of hydrogen.

    Production of highly pure deuterium http://www.paper.edu.cn/scholar/showpdf/NUT2IN1IOTD0cxeQh

    Heavy-water electrolysis unit for generating deuterium rich gas: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0950-7671/37/9/311/meta

    Preparation of Heavy Water: https://www.technology.matthey.com/article/3/4/118-124/



    How to measure the concentration of deuterium oxide https://www.anton-paar.com/corp-en/...ation-of-deuterium-oxide-d2o-with-dma-5000-m/

    @JanSz Note an old study: Naturally occurring deuterium is essential for the normal growth rate of cells https://febs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1016/0014-5793(93)81479-J

    Hydrogen production by alkaline water electrolysis http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0100-40422013000800017
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
    Dan2 likes this.
  17. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  18. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    At the beginning of DDW discussions I was thinking of modifying distillation equipment made to produce alcohol and adjust it to produce DDW.
    Eventually it become easier to buy and drink DDW-25 made by others.

    John Schumacher likes this.
  19. Here is my unproven lower tech method of ddw production. I have used this method to reduce the EC (electrical conductivity) or ppm of dissolved solids of irrigation water so the removed content can be replaced with nutrients and minerals in the exact ratio and concentration desired. I haven't tested it for deuterium levels. By using growing plants, transpiration, and evaporation in a sealed greenhouse, I believe one can produce ddw and low d veggies.
    So we start off with a sealed greenhouse. Mine has electric and passive dehumidifiers and air conditioning which removes moisture from the air and puts it in 55gallon drums. We start with a finite amount of water, soil,seeds and air. Within these inputs is a finite amount of deuterium. Let's say we have 100 gallons of well water, 4 yards of soil in planters, some seeds of broccoli, wheatgrass, tomatoes and carrots. When we saturate the soil and plant the seeds, evaporation begins and the dehumidifiers condense the water vapor back to the water tanks. Every cycle should reduce deuterium by a small amount.
    When seeds start to grow, their size and mass increase and they transpire more and more water into air. The dehumidifiers pull the slightly lighter water out of the air into tanks which will feed the plants tomorrow. This self contained water cycle works just like a still. Just gotta be patient.
    Deuterium is diluted as the plants grow. Consider that any deuterium in the biomass of grown plants had to come from the finite amount started with in water,soil and seeds.
    Now let's look at the veggies we grew. The deuterium content varies between plant species, plant part and life stage. I think that the tomatoes and carrots (fruit and root) will accumulate D. By drying them in the greenhouse, the low d water stays in the tanks and the high D biomass of accumulator plants can be removed and fed to animals or composted. The broccoli and wheatgrass should be lower d than regular growing method and can be consumed fresh,juiced or dryed with ddw in condensate tank.
    The water that remains in tanks is low d.
    I have also thought of using a series of solar stills to make ddw. Slow and steady.
    Another way to use this method is with a water gathering technique I recall from the boys scouts. Dig big hole. Fill with plant matter like green leaves,grass , wood chips ect. Put a container in the middle of the hole surrounded by plant matter. Cover with a plastic sheet. Seal edges with dirt and place a rock on top of plastic sheet so low spot is directly over container. Heat of day will evaporate moisture, condensation collects on plastic and runs into bucket.
    Dan2 and John Schumacher like this.
  20. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    1:01:52 - 1:05:16
    talking about deuterium

    "deuterium-free" (?) water from combustion of Brown's Gas

    JanSz likes this.

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