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CT chamber experiment, interested?

Discussion in 'The Cave' started by drezy, May 8, 2017.

  1. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Hey all

    I've been able to get $4.50 worth of ice to accommodate my wife, my son, and then me. It's not a bad use model, It's just that it often requires the alignment of 3 people's schedules. I want more "bang for the buck" as well as an incentive to CT more often.

    I've begun pulling apart and testing a cheap old dehumidifier(they're all built in the same factory anyway BTW).

    dehu.JPG

    I've also dug the hole (OK I used some child labor only because it's so cheap!) for the tub.

    dig.JPG



    If more than a few "like" this project, I'll promise to report every detail, f*ck up, protip, "wish I would have", and continuing info. I promise no bulls*t. I'll commit to this for at least 2 years and offer any technical support remotely if anyone is so inclined to repeat this. Cost 0$, 1 "like". I'll hold to that like cray cray.

    Why? I want the people in the world my 12yo son grows up in to be healthy. My wife and I made the tenuous decision to have just one child. If you hand any system, I can hack it. My son is beyond my ability...

    FWIW, I'd commit to report every failure and what NOT to do. I have zero interest in appearing perfect. That's a load of BS that once one is convinced, one is also doomed. I only befriend and follow people who tell me what NOT to do, exactly for this reason. N=1 resonates very much with me.

    Hit "like" if you'd like the full info on someone in Central Texas trying to make a CT system work.

    Full disclosure: I'm industrious but also lazy assed, and any peer pressure will help me finish this sooner!
     
  2. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  3. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Phosphene likes this.
  4. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    If you would use chiller, how big it have to be to satisfy what you needs?
    What is the combined power of the humidifiers that yo already have?

    ..............
     
  5. drezy

    drezy Gold

    So my inspiration came from this thread:
    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/stock-tank-tips-tricks.946/page-4#post-84062

    As well as here soI won't be the first person trying this:
    https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=280703

    I think 1/4 HP will do if I get the insulation spot on. Based on the above site, one dehumidifier should do the trick. I may plumb in the ability to have a second system if I don't get lazy.

    I'm currently planning on housing the tub in a hardieboard box and filling a 3 - 6" gap around the tub with closed cell foam insulation. I'll add a simple grounding system too.

    So far I'm pretty much all talk on this other than having the hole dug and dehumidifier ready. Next up antifreeze and a heat exchanger.
     
    Phosphene likes this.
  6. Mito1

    Mito1 New Member

  7. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Update

    I've received almost all of what I need to finish the project

    I've got my closed loop heat exchanger:
    IMG_3897.JPG

    And my spray foam insulation since this boils down to a thermodynamics game of shedding more heat than I gain:

    IMG_3898.JPG


    Lots of opportunities to screw this up at this point. Stay tuned.
     
    Mike David, Phosphene and caroline like this.
  8. drezy

    drezy Gold

    The very first instructions for the closed-cell spray foam insulation was:
    "KEEP ALL SPRAY FOAM OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN"

    My son would not have been happy at all if I did this without him. Here he is in full hazmat getup. Doesn't he look dashing in Tyvek:
    spray.PNG

    I think we did sorta alright with just a few minor things I would have done differently. R value added:

    foamed.jpeg
     
  9. drezy

    drezy Gold

    I'm motivated on this project. In 4 hours I got my system from 76 down to 54 degrees then it was bedtime for me.

    Actually there was one extra hour because I forgot that I only had water in the little orange heat exchanger and ended up with a block of ice surrounding my cooler coil. Ice itself doesn't conduct heat/cold as well so the system held 60 degrees until the cooler was shut off and defrosted. I added antifreeze to the orange heat exchanger and I was off to the races.

    Nothing blew up, melted, or sparked so I'm calling it a good day.

    System beautification and better lids for the units are next.

    Note: The heat exchanger does not exchange fluids. Nobody would want to make body contact with antifreeze.

    Unattractive test setup:
    test_setup.JPG
     
  10. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Here's a little update for @Sean Waters.

    We've(wife, son, and me) used this system 11 times now. My wife actually started using it regularly before bed. She's my little insomniac no more.

    My old digital kitchen thermometer can apparently only measure down to 12 F ( -11C). It gets colder than that in my little heat/cold exchanger that I've taken to calling Mad Max since it does look apocalyptic for now. Someday the ugly bits will be hidden in a nice looking wooden box in a garden.

    Thermal exchanger inside a 10 Gallon cooler:
    heatexchanger.JPG

    I use an 800 GPH pond pump to keep the water moving through the cooler copper coils.

    Pond Pump:
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Total-Pond-800-GPH-Pond-Pump-DD11800/206463483


    The exact dehumidifier unit I've pulled apart (although almost all 50 pint units across labels were made in the same factory anyway):
    https://www.appliancefactoryparts.com/dehumidifiers/kenmore/580-54501500.html

    This dehumidifier is over 15 years old. There's almost something moral about reusing old tech.

    Energy costs going forward:

    electricity: $0.11 / kwh
    unit power usage while on (with pump): 650 w
    cost per hour to run: $0.76

    Thermo dynamics at current ambient temperatures 82 F(27.8 C):
    system off = +0.25 C / hour
    system on = - 5 C / hour

    system on time required (at 82 F ambient) to maintain a fixed temperature = 1.2 hours / day

    daily cost from here on out = $0.92

    For the benefits it brings all 3 of us, I think I can handle that bill.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  11. shah78

    shah78 Gold

    Wow! CT porn at its best.!!!!! How much did that quantity of foam cost? Did you use the whole box? How much was the hazmat suit and hoses.? Did you have those "in stock"...... I used ten cans of spray foam and applied mine in a Kiniki swim suit outdoors. :) :) :) Mine cost $45.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
    Phosphene and caroline like this.
  12. shah78

    shah78 Gold

    You need to change the title of this post to" Quantum CT with Tim "drezy" Tool Time Taylor." :) :)
     
  13. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Thanks. After CT6 and the results I've experienced, I'm not messing around anymore.

    Extra costs:
    Tyvek suits (reusable and likely not needed): $13.47
    Touch n' Foam 200 board foot closed cell spray foam (biggest single expense): $333
    The hoses were laying around in my shed
    The 1/2" copper tubing in the thermal exchanger ran $60
    The grand total was $450-$525. I may have gone a bit overboard and could have spent less.

    I may get a UV water filter ($47) eventually to extend time between water changes.

    Obviously I shut down all systems when it's tub time for quieter EMF. Also the tub will be grounded from the bottom. The bottom will be 18" underground and the grounding rod will start there and be deeper than that.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
    Phosphene and caroline like this.
  14. drezy

    drezy Gold

    LOL! I always just wanted something cool like your tub since I first started lurking on these forums.

    FWIW, I don't consider myself all that mechanically adept so it's a pretty easy project.

    There nothing quite like the looks on rancher's faces when you pull a cattle tank out from storage and lay down in it. One of them eventually asked what I was using it for. I was pressed for time so I just explained that I have a condition where cooling myself helps heal faster, regulates metabolism, and resets my hormones. I just didn't explain that it was the human condition that I contracted.

    My wife now sleeps much better much more regularly. She is currently under tremendous pressure to finish a project. She's been there before but never slept this well during this time. Just not having a pissed off wife is worth enough to me that I could have gold plated the damn tub in gold and it still would have been a great investment.

    We focus a great deal on health and longevity, but do you ever wonder about the social and family impact of all this and the low dopamine behaviors and consequences? I think the costs of those factors are likely incalculably high in the world we created.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017

  15. Drezy this is epic!

    Is 21 inches tall enough? or do you crouch down once inside? got enough room? Also how do you get in/ out?
     
  16. drezy

    drezy Gold

    When you are 40 and are offered a way back to virtually being 20 again you'll do whatever it takes. Better yet, virtually 20 with a 40 year old prefrontal cortex programmed with 4 decades of experience (read dumb mistakes).

    The tub is 24" high, but I only need to fill in 16" because my body displaces enough water that it come up to my shoulders. At my height I'm the only one that needs bend my legs. I just bend them about 20-30 degrees. The tip tops of my knees do stick out a bit if I don't also cross my legs guru-style a bit.

    The only issue now is that at 24" high once the cold stiffens you up a bit it's a little more difficult swinging that leg up. The system will eventually reside 1' down in the ground and I'll probably have a grip or shower bar near by.

    Before I put it in the ground I'm waiting for my son to finish an automated thermal and pump control system so the whole system stays between 11C - 14C with no user interaction. He's working with a 12 year old prefrontal cortex though and needs a little nudging here and there. His generation would love to put it on the internet of things and monitor it from an iPad, but that won't be happening. This was a really good project to work on with a kid too since construction, electrical, and thermodynamics are all involved.

    Thermal sensors we decided on:
    https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/analog/sensors-and-sensor-interface/DS18B20.html

    controller and setup:
    https://create.arduino.cc/projecthu...digital-temperature-sensor-and-arduino-9cc806

    Relays:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087ZTN08/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Last but not least I'm shopping for one big shut off like this

    [​IMG]
    The microctroller and sensors are likely engineering overkill, but my boy finished his school year with all A's and requested not to attend any camps this year so this controller and programming is his in-house "coding camp".
     
  17. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
    drezy likes this.
  18. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Great recommendation. Yes my circuit has a GFCI so I don't get fried in a worse case scenario.
     
  19. drezy

    drezy Gold

    Initial mockup (dehumidifier and heat exchanger NOT encased from the weather like they will be in the end)

    tub.png



    I'll probably tile the1' of the exposed tub housing in this wood-looking tile since my wife requested it. It'll be a Texas Honky Tonk cold tub:
    [​IMG]
     
    Phosphene, SlamSlask and fitness@home like this.
  20. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Dan ....You said your wife is sleeping much better and I am wondering if her body shape and weight are changing? Have you thought to take measurement and pics - before and after?

    has your son noticed a difference? is he enjoying the project?

    Well done!!!

    somehow .... a smart guy always knows how to get what he wants!
     

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