1. Registering for the Forum

    We require a human profile pic upon registration on this forum.

    After registration is submitted, you will receive a confirmation email, which should contain a link to confirm your intent to register for the forum. At this point, you will not yet be registered on the forum.

    Our Support staff will manually approve your account within 24 hours, and you will get a notification. This is to prevent the many spam account signups which we receive on a daily basis.

    If you have any problems completing this registration, please email support@jackkruse.com and we will assist you.

Cortisol, ROS, & so Leptin Rx questions

Discussion in 'The Leptin Rx' started by Frank Kaplan, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. I just read The Epi-Paleo Rx. I have a few questions - sorry this is longer than I thought it would be.

    From the book:

    “D. Do not work out before or after breakfast. In obesity your cortisol is already high, so we don’t want to drive it higher to cause a pregnenelone steal syndrome. This will cause adrenal fatigue, cause your sex steroid hormones to crater, and worsen your body composition.”

    Excerpt From: Dr. Jack Kruse. “Epi-Paleo Rx.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/IHTwK.l

    Cortisol: My cortisol levels are not high. ONLY high in the evening (not high as suggested in the book, but I don't know what his general statement of being obese and "high" really mean exactly as there's not enough info to back it up.

    I received results from the Pharmasan 4 x day Salivary Test. It shows I start out at 5.3 at 7:55 am (it should be between 8 to 10 on a 0 to 10 scale). I tested at 4.2 at 12:55 pm, down to a low of 3.0 at 7:55 pm, rising to a high at 6.2 at 11:18 pm when it should the lowest of the day. I've tested like this for the last 15 years or so.

    I wake up feeling just okay and don't have really good energy. I can and do take a nap either mid-morning if I am really tired, or after lunch, if and why I can depending upon my schedule. This energy drop off doesn't change too much whether I eat carbs or avoid them completely. I am going to stop eating at 7:30 pm and eating the BAB within 30 minutes of rising. I've done this for a while now with no change in how I feel. I walk on the grass barefoot and stare as the morning son. I also put f.lux on my computer as well for evening reading or work I have to do.

    Two questions:

    Napping: Is it okay to nap during the day if my energy levels are really low or should I tough it out?

    Working Out Idea:

    Given cortisol starts off for lower than idea in the morning, and working out causes a rise in cortisol per the book, wouldn't it make sense for me to workout in the am instead of between 9 am and 4 pm (but at least an hour after I have my BAB)? Working out can mean weights or walking. I don't do HIIT or walk/run at a hard pace.

    Walking: Another question regarding walking and cortisol 0r ROS: Can I walk at a relatively slow pace of 220 - age x 70% for 30 to 45 mins really hurt? It helps me think clearly and gets my blood flowing even though I'm not killing myself and breathing too hard. I feel good for many hours after I do this.

    Heavy Cream vs Raw Heavy Cream: I've seen a few times now heavy cream being mentioned and being okay in coffee. Some say raw heavy cream, others saying heavy cream. Since I don't have access to raw heavy cream, is heavy cream okay when my BMI is 30 to 35 or for my friend who is 40%?

    Water: Is there a recommendation on how much water I should be drinking per day? I know it has to be spring water or RO water.

    Supplements: Aside from taking a pure form of Fish Oil, B-Complex (needed while I take Metformin), CoQ 10, and Vitamin D, are there any other supplements like PPP I should be taking? I realize the book doesn't have a recommendation for supplements before I'm Leptin sensitive. Full Disclosure: I'm currently on HRT - .60 cc's of Cypionate a week / divided by 3 and .05 Arimidex 3 days per week. I've also been taking 500 mg of Metformin 2 x's a day. I'm under an endocrinologist's care for these.

    Morning Protein Shake: Since there are times I need to get out of bed and leave immediately, I do the following quick smoothie in my bullet: 1.5 scoops of Jay Robb's Egg Protein - 24 grams of protein per scoop, 4 small organic and pastured eggs, 1 tablespoon of coconut oil (just eliminated Udo's Oil 3-6-9 oil based on what I read in the book), 1 cup of Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar / Stevia drink (no sugar, no carbs, no calories, etc...) and 1/4 cup of Hemp Milk (not always). I just ditched Tera's Grass Fed Whey Protein or even Bulletproof Whey due to it potentially spiking insulin (which I just read in the book or the blog). If there's any other good tasting, healthy protein power out there anyone recommends? (this knowing full well eating real food is the best choice)

    Thank you.
  2. No takers for these questions???
  3. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    I believe your cortisol rates will be high with obesity. However, with time, you use up enough resources, so that your cortisol levels drop. I was in that position a few years ago. Energy levels tanked.

    As far as your mild cortisol spike in the evening, you need to avoid light after dark on your eyes or skin, including blue light emitted by microbes in your gut. Don't eat after dark.
    kcehealth likes this.
  4. Thank you for your response. I've been like this before my weight issues. But thank you for your advice, it's much appreciated.
  5. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    i'll get to this thread at some point this weekend.......kinda busy now.
  6. Thank you, Jack. I appreciate it. Honestly, didn't even think you would respond. My reference was more to the group who seems very committed and engaged in helping each other.

    Not sure how you are able to get all of this stuff and maintain a schedule like you do as a surgeon. It's very impressive. I also wish I understood 80% of what you write. I'm making my way through as many of your articles as possible and all of the Q&A on all. I'll get it one day. I just keep reading all Leptin Rx, Leptin Part Deux, and Brain Gut 6, and How does the Leptin Rx work, and Leptin 3 (Oprah) posts over and over again. I'm ADHD and it's very hard to follow everything and put two and two together.

    I'm now listening to this video you recommended (https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/dr-pollack-h302.14519/) to try understand the water reference you mention over and over again. I've always been lost on that completely. You are 100% consistent on DHA and water. I get DHA now for sure. However, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the "water" other than drinking only RO and spring is the only way to go. But EZ water or other references don't add up yet. It will, I'm sure.
  7. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Read Pollack's book and you will get it. It is written for a fifth grader.
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    AS A FAT guy AM whey shakes I am OK with.........but as you get better you need to migrate to real proteins and not chew it is as much. Why? Read OSF 1. Clear as day. You must fix your gut and microbiome post obesity. And that is an environmental story too.
  9. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    RE: CORTISOL. What does pseudohypoxia mean to our hormone panel? The cost of a high aerobic capacity is low fertility so that we can maintain our cortisol pathways from LDL and Vitamin A as I mentioned the Hormone 101. This is why the pregnenolone steal syndrome exists. Cortisol over sex steroids is due to the use of oxygen as the terminal electron acceptor in human mitochondria. So when cortisol drops chronically this tells you that your environment is not allowing you to effectively utilize oxygen in your mitochondria as a terminal electron acceptor. What does that mean in english? It means your ubiquitination levels are raised and your mitochondria are pseudohypoxic. This means you are using other gases to perform the tasks that oxygen used to when your environment was more optimized. This causes us to use too much NO, H2S, and CO. These are sub-optimal choices and this leads to altered cortisol and overall hormone panels. All these changes lead to a lack of catalase in cells and altered UV light light release in cells (too much) and all these sequential changes fuel this low fertility and a low cortisol. When you begin to read all the details of the ubiquitin series you will see how pseudohypoxia plays into every mechanism of disease we have in biology and medicine and then you will see this is the huge problem our environment creates and it alters the optical non linear communication pathways between the mitochondria and nucleus. Total failure of these optical pathways lead to oncogenesis with time. Other disease can manifest prior to the total failure of the energy pathways.
    Fluorescence likes this.
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    What are you missing about ubiquitination? The energy contained within the wave (light or electromagnetic wave) is the only thing that determines an electromagnetic radiations power. That power is translated for biology by a protein called ubiquitin. Ubiquitin is a gear like protein to the circadian clocks in all of us. Time manifests or disappears based upon that fundamental interaction of light on atoms on our surfaces: eye, skin, and gut
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2015
  11. Honestly, what you wrote above, to me, is like reading Greek. This is all new to me, so your English is my Greek upside down and backwards. I do appreciate your willingness to try and explain it to me very much. I'm sure it's not fun having to repeat yourself over and over again when I'm sure all the answers are in all of your writings and Q&A. But to me, it's like trying to read code.

    I had to look up the meaning of pseudohypoxia which was a waste of time. Same for Ubiquination and most other terms. Again, it's all new to me. Perhaps I'm not that bright. But I will figure it out.

    Here's what I took from what you wrote:

    My environment sucks - either too much blue light and/or wifi signals. Cortisol is the master hormone in my particular case and its wreaking havoc on my cells. It's making me old and I'm going to only get worse if it's not fixed. It's screwing with all my other hormones. My circadian rhythm also blows and must be fixed. All of this will lead to really bad health consequences to me and it will only further weaken my mitochondria. About right?

    FYI- as I'm sure you could already surmise, I have sleep apnea. So I'm not sure if you mean my lungs are not getting enough oxygen or my cells.

    What I'm sure you are saying I should do: Follow that Leptin Rx to a T, which I am, ditch the blue light and wifi signals as much as I can control, follow Circadian Rhythm (did the standing in the grass and staring in the sun today again naked - which is not easy - and I'm sure the neighbors probably threw up if they saw me), start doing CT with the face plunge to try and get my body used to it so I can get all the way in for 30 to 40 minutes, don't workout until I start seeing some real progress with my weight loss, how I feel, my mood, etc... Have sex for the oxytocin.

    I'm taking Testosterone and now Arimidex seem to help me with my mood, as well as Armour Thyroid (I know CT will ultimately help not need it anymore). I feel this is helping me while I'm in the midst of the Pregnenolone Steal with my mood, my outlook, and my overall body. HCG sounds like I need to ditch based on many comments you've told others about in the Q&A. I've not felt any difference on HCG at all anyway.


    Is there
    anything else I should be doing for my cortisol? Sounds like if I can fix this major issue, the rest should fall into place so long as I'm doing the rest of what I said above. I'm sure it won't be easy and will take a long time to correct. That's okay with me since I want to stop how I look and feel.

    How do you feel about Metformin to lower insulin as a general rule?

    What supplements, if any, do you recommend to people with this cortisol issue or are supplements a waste of money at this point given my condition?

    IF there is any snacking between meals (and I know you are hard and fast is no tolerance for snack at this point), would a tablespoon of Coconut Manna be the least offensive vice to get me through the day if and when the BAB didn't do the trick?
  12. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Hi Frank;

    Avoid Fish Oil & Krill oil, they kill Omega6 that is also badly in need.
    Do not supplement with any oils unless their need is supported by using (proper) fatty acids analysis
    Do not exercise with low cortisol
    High cortisol in the evening -->> phospholipids lacking

    First things first:

    Get Spectracell Micronutrient analysis
    Fatty Acid Profile, Comprehensive (C8-C26), Serum
    Eduardo Garza, Eddie
    posts #174, #175, #177

    Is there anything else I should be doing for my cortisol?
    Must live outside and be exposed to sunlight.
    Only red light after sundown.
    Cell phone, tablets, computer monitors = blue light
    Measure (blood) pregnenolone, progesterone, cortisolAM, DHEAs
    Get them to good levels using:
    pregnenolone & DHEA pills

    Peruse my posts on this thread:

    Last edited: Aug 15, 2015
  13. Thank you, JanSz. My doc is very high on fish oil supplementation for now. Wants me to take 3-5 grams per day of Ocean Blue Omega Power Fish Oil (or a comparable fish oil). He said it will help to get my good cholesterol up to an acceptable level. Currently my HDL is only at 38 with a range of >60. And my HDLc has gone up while doing so. This is the first time I've read about not wanting to kill badly needed Omega 6. Curious as to why? I will stop until I get the analysis below.

    When you say live outside, you mean spend as much time outside as possible, correct? Very hard to do in the Arizona heat.

    I will get the following tests you recommend:

    Spectracell Micronutrient analysis
    Fatty Acid Profile, Comprehensive (C8-C26), Serum

    What do you mean by "phospholipids lacking" exactly?

    Here are my labs for only a few of the items you inquired about which were done last week:
    Progesterone = 0.58 ng/mL
    DHEAs 194.9 48-244 ug/dL

    Will get the rest as well.

    Thank you very much!
  14. JanSz

    JanSz Gold



    We are build out of cells.
    (Upper picture Lower right) Each cell have a outer membrane and membranes around mitochondria.
    These are to different type membranes. Looks similar, different componnents.
    (Lower left) diagram of phospholipid. Head likes water, hydrophylic. Tails hate water, hydrophobic. That characteristic make them organize into cell membranes automatically, but otherwise each phospholipid (and anything inserted between them, acts independetly).

    When we say fatty acids, we mean the blue area. There is always two of them.
    Ends of fatty acids constantly vibrate.
    There is multitude of different fatty acids.
    To keep membrane in good order the length of fatty acids can vary only so much.
    If we get fatty acids that are much longer than acceptable (degenerade), we get sick (mold, lyme ...).

    Polar head (green) is made of three parts.
    Glycerol backbone holds both sides.
    Note the three positions on glycerol backbone, sn-1, sn-2, sn-3
    Dr Kruse wants us to have the DHA on sn-2
    You asked: What do you mean by "phospholipids lacking" exactly?
    I meant the health of Polar Head, left of glycerol backbone.

    phosphatidylcholine (PC)
    phosphatidylethanolamine (PE)
    phosphatidylinositol (PI)
    phosphatidylserine (PS)
    phosphatidic acid (PA)
    phosphatidylglycerol (PG)
    cardiolipin (CL)

    Structure of a triglyceride

    Structure of a triglyceride next to a phospholipid






    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
    Starfish Prime and Fluorescence like this.
  15. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Spectracell Micronutrient analysis
    Fatty Acid Profile, Comprehensive (C8-C26), Serum

    Fatty Acids you can get at LabCorp or Mayo Clinic.
    Insurance should pay for it.

    Unless your doc already have account with spectracell,
    it will be much easier to just pay cash.
    Remember, untill you stabilize you should do Micronutrient test every six months.

    While you are at Spectracell, consider getting another two tests from them for the total of three tests.

    Nutritional Testing Price: $390.00

    CardioMetabolic Testing : Price: $150.00 (best cholesterol ++ test)

    ApoE Genotyping ----- to be done only once, Price: $140.00

    If you are the kind of guy who must have extra touch:
    Micronutrient "Premium Package" $525.00
    An enhanced value package that includes our comprehensive micronutrient test plus a convenient at-home blood draw and a 30-minute consult with a certified nutritionist. Please note: Premium package is NOT available for international orders.


    On a slide #12 there is a list of measured items:
    Sample Report

  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Frank that greek is what you need to learn.......read today's post on being a teacher. Stop complaining its hard to get and apply yourself. You are being given something for nothing.
  17. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Definitely not free, my payment is in the form of learning experience and pleasure of sharing.
    Thank you dr Kruse 1000x

  18. I'm trying, Jack. I'm not sure why you say I'm complaining. I'm here for a reason. I'm trying to learn and asking questions . I could pretend to understand all or say nothing at all. But I don't and won't because it will only hurt me doing so.

    Look at your Q&A from 2011 and 2012 and compare it to the last year or so. You were much more patient and understanding with those who didn't get it. It's like night and day. I try to read every article and every Q&A question to gain more insight and to have it fed to me over and over again. I'm not trying to be rude in saying that either. To use a familiar term, it feels as though your patience "telomeres" are have gotten a lot shorter. But I do sincerely thank you for taking an interest in trying to help.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  19. JanSz - you are a good guy. Thanks for being so selfless for your time.

    Man, I'm in the wrong business. I need to be in the blood testing business. They command a very high price for their services! I'm taking both the Fatty Acid test tomorrow and the Micronutrient tests for sure tomorrow. What will the ApoE test do exactly? I'm going to skip the cholesterol tests. I already know the status of those and have for years.
  20. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    You said:
    How do you feel about Metformin to lower insulin as a general rule?
    Progesterone = 0.58 ng/mL
    DHEAs 194.9 48-244 ug/dL
    BMI is 30 to 35 my friend who is 40%?
    I'm currently on HRT - .60 cc's of Cypionate a week / divided by 3 and .05 Arimidex 3 days per week. I've also been taking 500 mg of Metformin 2 x's a day.

    Do not make any changes to your protocol of supplements and medicines,
    untill you post here report of your
    Fatty Acids and Spectracell Micronutrients.

    Make a list of what you are taking, dose, brand, description, link to place where you buying it if internet.

    Scan and post here each and every page of all tests that you have done in the last three years.
    If you do not have those reports go to doc's office and get a (clean easy to read) copy.

    Post you age, height and body fat. Do not use BM index.
    Men aim under 10% body fat
    Women aim under 15-20% body fat

    Do you have all body parts?
    Describe your complaints.

    Post your under arm body temperature, midday, preferably taken with mercury thermometer.

    Get bathroom scale, check your body fat daily, make it bother you if it is high.

    Eat nothing that contains wheat or sugar.

    Butter, coconut oil, pork lard, beef lard, whole chicken egg
    Eat one tablespoon of every type of fat and one egg daily.
    Make a good effort to increase that to 3x/day every day
    then look what else you will eat.
    Good way to reduce body fat.

    Body fat produces aromatase, more body fat more aromatase.
    Aromatase converts testosterone to estradiol
    Reduced body fat will reduce/eliminate need for Aromatase Inhibitor (AI)=Arimidex

    Eat enough DHEA pills to get DHEAs,serum:
    Men (520-640)μg/dL
    Women (275-400) μg/dL


    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015

Share This Page