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Collagen I vs. III and what to do about it...

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by René Borg, Sep 4, 2015.

  1. René Borg

    René Borg New Member

    When my clients come to be to get their motor skills 'reprogrammed' old tendonosis can be one of the most frustrating obstacles to deal with as a movement coach.

    So I am interested in what the underlying physics on this site can tell us about what goes haywire when collagen III becomes more abundant in tendons after they suffer microtrauma and how it can help me advise people better rather than necesarily sending them straight to current 'fixes' for collagen degeneration (such as surgery, stem cell infusion, blood platelet injection, laser etc.).

    So current research (one link below) seems to show that collagen 3 becomes more abundant in damaged tendons instead of the 'better' collagen 1 which is normally more abundant in connective tissue. The reason is speculated to be the ability to form cross-links quicker. All this is speculation at the molecular level. I wonder do we know what the more fundamental difference is between collagen I and collagen III and what aspects of the Rxes on this site may incite the body to remove the collagen III again and replace it wth the original collagen I? Can we even achieve this without a modicum of intervention (such as perhaps laser or light therapy) to support the body's own catatoxic response to this change.

    Would movement reprogramming along with the principles on this site be enough for this change or do we need to go a bit more specific. Is light also a 'scalpel' for this type of tendon change? Could the change in collagen be due to constant exposure to the wrong type of vibration frequencies from the surfaces we walk on? (i.e. because we wear cushioned footwear so the body misinterprets its habitual adjustment because it cannot pick up the correct frequency from the surface it is contacting because the foot proprioceptors cannot pick up frequency of the force wave in time for the CNS to respond optimally).

    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
    Linz likes this.
  2. prAna303

    prAna303 New Member


    What i have done to my own body and mind thru the last ten years resonates a bit with the above.

    Since i had some old injuries that i managed quite well i sensed that i had to fix them before they show up as a limit, both physical and mental. It goes very well with Jacks work combined with a deep passion with some other areas.

    - I have fixed my neck, been hit by cars four times, riding bike in training and competition.

    - I have fixed my hip, a result from that neck.

    - I have fixed my elbow, connected with the above.

    - Working on the impossible according to my old doctor (25 years ago), my eyes. This one is going to take time but the change is big.

    This all boils down to one simple little thing, let go!

    Since my very early days i had my own master, a teacher that has been with me every day, pushing and pulling me apart, demanding my response within seconds, always ready to pull the mat away... Nature.

    Light is just like Jack says, fundamental and most of us miss the point... We are built upon that, not just in a goofball kind of way but way deeper and higher. This means that we are made to use it 24/7, 365 days / year, forever as long as we live. You say something about walking and wearing shoes. Yes this is a big issue but you need to connect it deeper. The feet is optimal without any technology applied, yes any kind of protection BUT that demands that you are connected in nature the whole time. I think it is not just about magnetism, it is the light that you should be able to transfer to higher states, your palm of your hand and the sole of your feet do not get a tan, can this be a light clue?

    Why do we build extra material inside of our bodies like crazy today? Is it a healing process that is going haywire? To heal is today to steal but what happens when you do not have anything to steal from because you have technology that robs you 24/7. With strange ideas on correction to our bodies we put that extra stress to points in our bodies that leak... Light.

    I have taken some athletes this summer and changed their abilities just by making them think different, some at quite high levels and everywhere the science is so static, do this and that and you should see results, bang and crash they burn down. Also the rest of us is under that stress.

    I feel that we need before everything else in helping others with just say, gait and posture, we need to understand what we call redox potential here. When you are constantly transfering energy badly, your brain will loose some of its most detailed systems, those who makes things vivid and sublime. Fixing a gait issue without adjusting this first only makes the object more stressed because she can not perform like we tell her to do. Get those basic three things in place and the above issue often just, do not exist anymore, why? Loose you brain and you go back to our most basic systems, survive. In that mode, your ability to walk and make others look is not important.

    What i used to fix my problems was simply, tune up my potential. Learn again that the things i thought was impossible is possible, apply it to my movement and motion, forcing myself into places where i have been told that i have no chance at my age. It all comes down to each person to make the changes by themselves, we others can only plant a virus in them.

    Everything is possible, just not predictable... This is where most people who works with people fail. We who learn here should accept that fact and change the world at our place where we are.
    Linz likes this.
  3. René Borg

    René Borg New Member

    Hi prAna, thank you for the long and thought out reply. I definitely recognise the question of 'defensive mechanisms' going haywire. I remember an athlete from Mali once telling me he never ran in a 'highly reactive state' which meant in a state of stress where he assumed his body would overreact to further stressors. I also see again and again this 'overcompensation' especially on the foot - my favourite example the bunions and other bony deformities that are created when the big toe has been displaced or when too much tension is drawn across the ankle bone. No doubt a thicker Achilles is an ill-informed attempt to protect the body just as the bunion is a last ditch attempt to try and build 'a new big toe' where the real one has 'gone missing'.

    There is no choice to reflect on your words and take my own experiments to the next level. I walk barefoot all the time, swim in the local river etc., but cannot be outside as much as I want nor do I do as much 'pure barefoot' running as I want because I live next to gritty tarmac and rocky trails - but this is something I will have to work around. Greater exposure to nature, more protective measures from and then also fix some fundamental problems I have (such as my contact lenses - cue Jack's recent post) and then continue the 'good movement'. I will see where this takes me - and if it works then it is my obligation to communicate it to future clients.

    Another clue that we cannot be 'biomechanics' or 'athletics' coaches - merely 'coaches', focusing on one part of the picture is a sin of omission by default.
    Jude likes this.
  4. Linz

    Linz Gold

    Rene, I see big parallels with the equine industry here. We have huge problems with tendon/ligament injuries that never regain strength properly alongside a vast increase in metabolic syndromes, joint inflammation, and many investigations showing as many as 90% of working horses with gut ulceration. We are also seeing horses dying from toxins in sycamore trees that have grown alongside their fields for many years without a problem.

    Working with principles similar to Peter to boost cell redox potential I have seen many good changes in my own very low DHA herbivores (some my vets cannot understand) but I'm still treading water to stay afloat. Makes me think very hard about my own environment when keeping the animals outside in a rural place with little artificial light or food and in constant contact with the ground/only shoeing in a few cases when it can't be avoided, isn't enough here. Most work is done on natural surfaces. Providing RO water isn't a viable option - clean and cold with Cl but no Fl (and human approved levels of nitrate) is the best I can do. My biggest progress has been made by replacing all the conventional stretches and other 'biomechanics' advice with cranio-sacral treatment and very small controlled movement in place of the 'stretching'. I'm only an amateur but this very much involves down-regulation of stressed SNS - and I think real healing occurs with upreg (or perhaps just better balanced?) ANS.
    My preferred artificial interventions that seem to have helped are low photon red and IR light pads/ice packs/hydro-therapy and turmeric and I would like to know more about lasers. I think you need to start by improving redox using good water, cold therapy and natural light alongside a clean DHA and cysteine- rich diet. These would all give the collagen a better chance to re-establish with proper movement.
  5. prAna303

    prAna303 New Member

    Also, there is a reason why i always have my student walk for me.

    Words can say somethings but if your redox is shot, the words are quite off. Walk around and you tell me many stories, even the darkest ones.
  6. René Borg

    René Borg New Member

    Linz, those observations definitely point to the truth. Optimal biomechanics is obviously desirable and we can create a fairly objective measure of optimal if we define it as 'minimising unnecessary joint torque' and 'maximing the ability to harness and create force' (power). Originally, this led me to think that the sedentary development in our population, the sitting and the over-engineered footwear was the main driver of sports injuries and the decline of Western athletics since the early 1980ies.

    When I first got in contact with Bruce Lipton's thesis on the primacy of the environment (rather than the primacy of the genome) it did begin to ring some silent alarm bells coupled with the fact the poor biomechanics does not account for all injuries - we see injuries in sedentary populations that should not be occurring at the minute amounts of physical exercise we see. and then there was the many who have great mechanics and are still injured or those with poor mechanics who are not. The first could be explained partly by cohort of runners who move well but are unconditioned. But then you read the descriptions of how the Kenyans live today, how the Antipodean athletes of the 1940ies to 1970ies lived and there's a pretty big red flag being waved that indicates what you see. Take the 'Flying Kiwis' of the 1960ies - minimal technology, hardworking outdoor culture, lots of barefoot walking and running, regular exposure to the elements, eating mainly local produce that was not yet industrialised agriculture, low stress levels/good work life balance and a stoic attitude to life.

    Just reading the autobiographies suggest people with a much better balance between ANS/SNS before you consider anything else. They ran 100 mile weeks and were barely ever injured.

    I am going to take down your points in the last line and see how best to implement it. Where have you found it easiest to obtain low photon red and IR light pads? In Ireland we have a cryochamber as well as a very famous surgeon who works with laser (Dr Patrick Leahy, one of the pioneers of key hole surgery) who seems to be doing interesting and effective work and accelerating the healing response of tissues manyfold.
  7. Linz

    Linz Gold

    My light pad came from equinelighttherapy.com for what seemed a very inflated price for a set of LED lights and some velcro. Tax and shipping to the UK didn't help. It's for animal treatment although I have used it on a few of my own injuries too. I couldn't find anything suitable here but I think there may be some German ones. Language made it difficult to research.

    I have always disliked over-engineered footwear too and the synthetic over padded boots designed to keep riders' feet warm. At least we still have some leather-soled boots although they are becoming harder to find.
  8. Penny

    Penny New Member

    I "cured" my achilles tendonitis - can anyone say dehydration - with magnesium oil (mag chloride) spray twice a day like Jack told someone on a thread here eons ago - for me, it was like a miracle - I could finally walk without pain, braces, and shoes:)

    It's important to use magnesium throughout the day for dehydration - I just stick the mag citrate powder in my ice water - with a mint sprig - and hydrate away...:)

    I just buy it in bulk, I use so much -
    Jamie S likes this.
  9. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    I wonder if there is a place for ozone/prolozone/prolotherapy here. A collegue at work had this treatment on his long standing hip problem and is seeing good results so far. I'm following his progress with a view to maybe getting the same treatment for my knees.
  10. Jill1

    Jill1 New Member

    depends - what is your goal? Ozone injections are great for quick pain relief - added with neural therapy is great.

    PRP injections by a company called Regenexx work wonders for regrowing damaged tissue, joints, ligaments, disc ect...
    Only a handful of docs are able to do these. www.regenexx.com

  11. René Borg

    René Borg New Member

    How much do you currently use Penny? I have been using the Magnesium sprays but only 1-2 x per day. I have sometimes taken very hefty magnesium supplements and sometimes not and then some Epsom salt baths. Because, at the time, I was addressing this as a simple 'cause and effect' and not as a more complex picture (as I try to know) I don't think I got the results I needed but I would like to give it a try now that I have the epigenetic ducks in a row.

    I definitely think EMF and bluelight exposed me to this at the same time as I ramped up barefoot running. The problem was that I was not aware of the connection until after reading 'Lights Out' prompted by a recommendation here and I was (and am) working two jobs - IT consultant during the day - and trying to run two business in the evenings. This for a long time meant being near an electronic device working over 12 hours per day. I work for a major player in the IT world and the EMF readings you get in their offices are through the roof! My environment is still not optimal but at least no longer 'lethal'. Environment, environment, environment :(
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
    Jamie S likes this.
  12. René Borg

    René Borg New Member

    This is an area I have not been familiar with. I have tried cryotherapy chambers back in 2008 (-110 degree chambers) and laser therapy but not this.
  13. René Borg

    René Borg New Member

    Ok, had a look, main one seems to come in at 299 which is not too bad considering the long-time use it would have. ADded to the list of 'remedial' solutions .
  14. Penny

    Penny New Member

    I just spray it a few times on the back of my legs and rub so it gets all the way down to my heals - in the shower, I take a handful of epsom salts and rub them all over my body - even over my heart - I get no heart weirdness anymore either - I think I put around 1/2 tsp mag citrate into a glass - but the water is alkaline, iced, has apple cider vinegar and has a sprig of mint - it would be the total bomb to add potassium bicarbonate to this, but that would make it taste vomitous -

    I also - when I remember - use something called Fibro Response because it has magnesium malate in it which I think makes me more energetic because I am guessing my aluminum load is probably insane... but mag malate pills are so huge, I damn near choke on them, so that's why I go with the Fibro Response - but the epsom salts make my skin quite smooth and soft - truly a no brainer IMHO:)

    The other thing I've been doing - as I am 100% sure at this point calcium is effluxing like crazy, is spray epsom salts all over my body when I go sunbathing in the morning - I hiked for 5 hours at Yosemite this summer in the middle of the day with nothing but epsom salt spray and never even got sunburned -
    zohar and Jamie S like this.

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