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coconut oil "reaction"

Discussion in 'The Epi-Paleo Diet' started by Matty_M, May 23, 2015.

  1. That's what's great about this place. In regular society we are crazy outliers, but here we are a flock of black swans, giving each other the strength and wisdom to hold our chins up and tits out. We aren't the weird ones!
     
    Sean Waters likes this.
  2. Penny

    Penny New Member

    I'll cop to being odd... adrenal fatigue comes not from your adrenals, but from the brain - it's leptin - probably a shit environment all that time - plus, I think JK said in one of his many posts, that people who are athletic can handle hypoxia ( read: swimmer) but they blow through their telomeres...

    What I don't get is why you are doing keto in sun bleached Mexico... on a magnetic beach? I would be pounding guavas myself...:)
     
    Sean Waters likes this.
  3. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    Yeah I said it just for ease of understanding... You absolutely correct is'a PVN issue. I read BG 16 - and that's how I fixed it. It's a PVN issue due to high Ca2+ effulx in the CNS. But, tonnes of exercise can make it 10x worse, esp in high nnEMF.

    Agreed... Exercise in small, infrequent doses is best, or perhaps just none at all - I haven't decided yet. It looks to me lik eExercise is v beneficial to a certain age and then you need to cut it like a bad habit for longevity (Nir Barzilai's work on Centenarians and IGF-1)

    Well, cause none of that shit grows here mate. I travelled around Central America to Guatemala and to Costa Rica and several places in Mexico.... and the only things I saw growing off trees in my 2 years here have been Coconuts and Palms.Other than human interference, I found hardly anything.

    All Fruits and Veg are human-hybrids and forced to grow with chemicals and deuterated water.The Veg we eat today are like those factory farmed super-steroid cows.. that's the equivalent.

    In the Yucatan, this is a very deuterium depleted environment. It's a mass of Limestone rock, and so it doesn't have the lush rainforests needed for fruits, but even if it did - the animals get it way quicker. It's very hard to grow stuff here yourself, let alone find it hanging around.

    I think we're built for Seafood/ Meat Protein and Fat on a Carnivore-ish diet, no matter where we are in the world, because the Time it takes to hunt for Calories gained is very very poor with fruit/ veg anyway. Possibly 200 calories per hour. Whereas with Animals/ Seafood it's like 50,000 hour. I can send you a study on hunter gatherer diets for that data.

    I add some mushrooms, onions and avocadoes if it's Sun for the sulphur/ EPCOTx thing, as well as turmeric and resveratrol - but I usually tail it off come November to almost zero carb.
     
  4. Penny

    Penny New Member

    Very interesting... for me, exercising in the cold ocean or cold mornings are great - just turned 63 yesterday:) But, I think doing heavy lifting is the total bomb for staving off a lot of elder maladies...
     
    Sean Waters likes this.
  5. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/too-much-protein.18871/

    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/50-grams-or-protein-no-can-do.11940/

    Some excellent threads I've just found on Protein....... the first one links Overeating Protein to increasing mTOR pathway, something that CT, Sun, DHA, Grounding, Turmeric, Resveratrol (All the LWM Protocols) are trying to lower.

    Second thread may be relevant to you......... Jack says the more we exercise, the less protein we actually need over time, as Ubiquitination recycling improves as the Redox improves.

    But the important point: Overeating Protein will stimulate Ubiquitination - which is the most energy intensive process in the cell, as every molecule for Ubiquitin requires ATP for it to work. Which is really bad... he says "this what the paleo meat head guys get badly wrong".... which is true, they obsess over Protein in take, but it actually does you more harm!

    No wonder Mercola said in that thread above that Over-doing protein can be worse than developing Insulin Resistance.

    So, I'm dropping the Protein levels hard tomorrow - see if I can find a baseline........ and funny ernough, I'm going to increase the Coconut Oil/ Fats ;) love learning on this forum. Isn't it the fucking best?

    Happy Birthday for yesterday mate... hope you had a great session in the water.
     
  6. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

  7. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    Epic also that DHA at 500uM inside the cell lowers Ubiquitination by half (50%). More seafood = less Ubiquitination = less need for Protein = INUIT Diet explained

    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2013/318981/

    DHA Inhibits Protein Degradation More Efficiently than EPA by Regulating the PPARγ/NFκB Pathway in C2C12 Myotubes

    Abstract
    This study was conducted to evaluate the mechanism by which n-3 PUFA regulated the protein degradation in C2C12 myotubes. Compared with the BSA control, EPA at concentrations from 400 to 600 µM decreased total protein degradation. However, the total protein degradation was decreased when the concentrations of DHA ranged from 300 µM to 700 µM. DHA (400 µM, 24 h) more efficiently decreased the IκBα phosphorylation and increased in the IκBα protein level than 400 µM EPA. Compared with BSA, 400 µM EPA and DHA resulted in a 47% or 68% induction of the NFκB DNA binding activity, respectively.

    Meanwhile, 400 µM EPA and DHA resulted in a 1.3-fold and 2.0-fold induction of the PPARγ expression, respectively. Interestingly, EPA and DHA both still decreased the total protein degradation, although PPARγ knockdown attenuated the suppressive effects of EPA and DHA on the total protein degradation. These results revealed that DHA inhibits protein degradation more efficiently than EPA by regulating the PPARγ/NF-κB pathway in C2C12 myotubes.
     
  8. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    https://jackkruse.com/ubiquitination-6-uncoupled-cycles-uncouples-knowledge/

    Oh my god.......... this blog, nails it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ...

    Eating tons of protein all day long increases mTOR pathways. There is nothing controversial here. The mTOR pathway is “downstream” from the Insulin/IGF-1 pathway. But here is where it gets interesting. The mTOR pathway completely “shuts off” autophagy and stimulates protein synthesis. What has this series been about? Ubiquination. Ubiquination = protein recycling and synthesis. The paleo diet causes up-regulation of mTOR and Ubiquitin marking of proteins. This would lead to the result the women of paleo seem to be getting. This is the primary “danger” of eating too much meat or protein (i.e. stimulating the mTOR pathway). The ancestral health and paleo community, still today, advocates these behaviors. They also advocate brisk exercise in this modern world. Look at the pictures from any paleo fx conference. Their generation and tribe, also happens to use technology, in the same fashion to Mr. Moore.


    When we eat more protein, the science says we should exercise less, not more, because mTOR will be stimulated further!!! Hyperlink. So, their advice on exercise is WRONG and not factual, based upon what we know about proper coupled cycles. The data on protein consumption and exercise is well established but completely overlooked by ancestral groups. The more you exercise, the more fat one should consider in your diet. Here Mr. Moore gets something correct, but for the wrong reasons. He does not realize the fats need to be augmented with massive amounts of DHA. We should eat less protein and more fat, otherwise you increase mTOR. This effect is magnified in a microwaved world. This is why the women of paleo have gotten the results they have. I predicted in Austin at the original Paleo Fx event this was coming. They scoffed and laughed. Who is laughing now?


    So, this raises a point for us all, what should you eat post work out in a microwaved world? First, your exercise should be natural and connected to the environment. Erwan LeCorre, is one guy in ancestral health, who gets the exercise part down pat. The conventional advice from RD, nutritionists, chiropractors, functional medicine paleo practitioners, is post work out, carbs or protein are best. Is it true? I do not advocate that, have not advocated that, and would not advocate that. Why not? If we want to shut down mTor, we should fast or drink cold water post workout…….Why? Nothing to eat = Intermittent fasting (IF) = AMPK = autophagy. (See below why details matter)
     
  9. Penny

    Penny New Member

    dude - you TOTALLY nailed it on this! I have been losing muscle mass:

    Nuclear factor-kappa B (NFκB) is one of the most important signaling pathways linked to the loss of skeletal muscle mass in normal physiological and pathophysiological conditions [1]. NFκB expresses constitutively and exists in the cytosol as part of a heterotrimeric complex [2]. This complex typically comprises the DNA-binding proteins p50 and p65 plus the inhibitory protein IκBα. Activation of NFκB requires phosphorylation of IκBα, followed by ubiquitin conjugation and proteolysis of IκBα by the 26S proteasome [3, 4]. The activated NFκB dimer is then translocated to the cell nucleus, which is a feed-forward signal that leads to the upregulation of pathway components including ubiquitin, E2/E3 proteins, and proteasome subunits, subsequently increasing activity of the ubiquitin/proteasome pathway and enhancing skeletal muscle protein degradation [57].

    I am shit canning ham and replacing it with seafood - not thinkin' my singular can of oysters at night is enough... I thought the progression was pretty funny actually - first, you can't eat anything fun, then you have to eat a bunch of fat/protein/seafood and then it turns out the best thing to do is not eat at all:)

    It's not like I really exercise a lot though these days - a morning walk and a late afternoon swim in the cold water - although it is hard to not swim hard when it is 55 degrees...:) I think he said if you swim in the cold water, to eat seafood before hand - I also have that backwards... THANKS!
     
    Sean Waters likes this.
  10. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    Hahahahha yes mate!! I was convinced of my revelation last night... I think if cause I've been hammering protein, it seems as though it will take a bit of time my body to re-adapt to this lower level without having some kind of issue.

    I may actually re-do the Leptin Rx.... but stick to 50g BAB (instead of 100g plus), then 30g lunch (instead of fasting), then 20g dinner (instead of 100g plus)... when I did that previously I felt amazing.

    I got Cooking Scales delivered today and I was stunned by the weight of some of my portions. I can eat a whole fillet of Sole or grouper, the ones I've been eating for BAB and/ or DInner have been around 710-730g each. Which is 110g of Protein :O

    I've noticed my Energy has already gone up two-fold. I've also noticed my Sleep is better, I still breathe through mouth and wake up with dry mouth, but last 2 nights I've woke up without thirst.

    I've seen myt body comp change too... all of my muscles are popping out, I look a bit more "pumped".

    Fucking wild... I'll keep this spot updated as I go.

    Today I had 30g of Protein at breakfast with 75g Coconut Oil, was a bit too much Fat I think, but I did CT for 25 mins and it put me back on course.

    I skipped lunch - think it was a mistake as I got hungry at 2pm (6 hrs later).

    Dinner - 75g protein... again it felt like too much... think I can go much lower than this. Down to 80g a day.
     
  11. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

  12. Penny

    Penny New Member

    I found this by JK about mtor and sarcopenia: EC coupling stands for excitation contraction coupling - ie.e muscle contraction:
    https://www.thehealthboard.com/what-is-excitation-contraction-coupling.htm

    so the sun mitigates the protein I guess... I always eat protein in the sun - especially high triptophan foods:) UV light mitigates tyrosine kinase -

    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.p...openia-as-we-age-is-a-story-about-mtor.23865/
    Activation of mTORC1 signalling in rat skeletal muscle is independent of the EC-coupling sequence but dependent on tension per se in a dose-response relationship
    Emil Rindom, Anders M. Kristensen, Kristian Overgaard, Kristian Vissing, Frank Vincenzo de Paoli
    First published: 24 June 2019
    https://doi.org/10.1111/apha.13336
    Citations: 7
    Read the full text
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    Abstract
    Aim

    mTORC1 is regarded as an important key regulator of protein synthesis and hypertrophy following mechanical stimuli in skeletal muscle. However, as excitation and tension development is tightly coupled in most experimental models, very little and largely indirect evidence exist for such a mechanosensitive pathway. Here, we sought to examine whether activation of mTORC1 signalling is dependent on tension per se in rat skeletal muscle.

    Methods
    To examine the mechanosensitivity of mTORC1, rat EDL muscles were exposed to either excitation-induced eccentric contractions (ECC), passive stretching (PAS) with identical peak tension (Tpeak) and Tension-Time-Integral (TTI), or ECC with addition of inhibitors of the myosin ATPases (IMA). To further explore the relationship between tension and mTORC1 signalling, rat EDL muscles were subjected to PAS of different magnitudes of Tpeak while standardizing TTI and vice versa.

    Results
    PAS and ECC with equal Tpeak and TTI produced similar responses in mTORC1 signalling despite different modes of tension development. When active tension during ECC was nearly abolished by addition of IMA, mTORC1 signalling was reduced to a level comparable to non-stimulated controls. In addition, when muscles were exposed to PAS of varying levels of Tpeak with standardized TTI, activation of mTORC1 signalling displayed a positive relationship with peak tension.

    Conclusions
    The current study directly links tension per se to activation of mTORC1 signalling, which is independent of an active EC-coupling sequence. Moreover, activation of mTORC1 signalling displays a positive dose-response relationship with peak tension.

    Citing Literature

    Supporting Information

    [​IMG]
    Volume227, Issue3


    November 2019

    e13336

     
  13. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    So excess protein or anything that activates mTOR can lead to Muscle Contraction and therefore Sarcopenia...

    Funny, I bet this is how Meatheads who overdose on protein and live inside nnEMF in Gyms all day can Fuck themselves up entirely

    Or, a high protein diet and sitting in an office too....... like me, cause my back pain is an issue right now with computer work. But since dropping Protein down it has calmed down a lot...

    Another update....... I dropped Protein but got really really hungry.

    Then I got some Scales and weighed the Coconut Oil I'm using. Would you believe it if I told you that I'd thought that solid tablespoons weighed like twice the iquid tablespoons...? and so I was using 2-3 tbsp of solid, thinking it was 5-6 liquid.... nope... it's exactly the same. I'm such a dumb fuck at times.

    So, I've upped the Coconut Oil to 5-6 per meal today and kept protein low, seems to be working a treat!

    facepalm. No wonder I've been so ravenous for protein, cause I didn't have enough Fat.
     
  14. Penny

    Penny New Member

    I tried a bowl of bone broth last night - it was amazing - killed all hunger - destroyed inflammation and I didn't have to digest a bunch of food... my grandmother used to say eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dinner like a pauper... so true:) And protein while grounded in the sun will let you eat more of it - I think that was JK's point - and the protein should be seafood - remember seafood has DHA which helps signalling from the hypothalamus to all the other organs - so it gets you leptin sensitive really fast - in the sun:)
     
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  15. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    Yeah i definitely can tolerate higher protein in the sun, anything i do that is "bad" can be mitigated by the Sun!! Its why my skin is black lol.

    But, getting to know the groove my body likes is so critical.... so I can feel those deep inner feelings of vitality... then i meditate and connect to the divine, the source.

    Ps. im on a strict 1:1 o3 to 06 ratio diet.... meat two or three times a week only, oysters daily from Pacific Mexico
     
    Penny likes this.
  16. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    but the long loop of DHA can be wrecked in those with Gut/ liver issues full of deuterium, so takes time to get it working again for sure.
     
    Penny likes this.
  17. Penny

    Penny New Member

    I've come to the conclusion that I eat/drink too many diuretics - like a bed of greens sounds healthy, but most of the herbs I eat are diuretics - herbal teas... diuretics - too much protein - functional diuretic as it produces ammonia - I think we use BH4 to neutralize ammonia - which is also used for dopamine so you can see how that could lead to brain fog... P5P and zinc - as I vaguely recall - helps with this -

    https://healthfully.com/protein-ammonia-brain-damage-6921862.html
     
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  18. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    Oh man... that explains so much regarding the Brain Fog and actual loss in brain power I have been experiencing, especially post-meal. Ammonia and mTOR seem to be the 2 devils of over-consuming Protein... I also take Green Tea, but 1 cup, seems to help me too. What about Curcumin, Resveratrol, they aren't diuretics?.... also as per UBI 6 - I'm looking at AMPk boosters... Curcumin, Resveratrol... but also Berberine - which has helped me immensely in the past.

    I'm doing much, much better with this lower protein gig. Struggling a little bit with Fat intake, still sort of finding my balance with that one. 60-70g per meal seems to be the sweet spot.

    I even started going back to the old r/Keto forum on Reddit. I sort of thought of myself as beyond that, with learning Jack's work, but they offer some solid, practical advice with Ketogenic dieting and I think it's easy to overlook something so fundamental.

    My Macros were way way out man. I should be at like 80-100g Protein, I was over by like 120-140g.. no way I was in Ketosis. I never felt like it either.

    Last few days I've dropped protein, then dropped again, and dropped even lower today to around 98-100g. Increasing the Fat wasn't helping with hunger initially, but now it seems my Gut is adapting again to utilising the Fats and I feel much more satiated. Good old reddit forms helped my doubt with that, lots saying it took them a few weeks to just run off Fat....... I'm doing CT an Mexico Sun too, grounding etc., I think that's the key ingredient and EMF avoidance (interferes with 100Hz Mito Oscillation).

    I know Jack doesn't believe in it all, but I think that's from the perspective of someone with immense Redox (Hadza tribe) who is using PPP an metabolically flexible. I think given the millions now using Keto to feel a sense of normality, goes to show the empirical data says our environment has forced us to become Nutrition nerds in order to find optimal. Shame, but we're learning faster than ever race of humans ever, I think that's worth something - very empowering for the human race.
     
  19. Sean Waters

    Sean Waters New Member

    I actually thought the Brain Fog was coming from a Candida issue, acetaldehydes and ammonias... but no, definitely protein.

    Although, since ramping up the Coconut Oil... Deuterium depleting my diet pretty rapidly... I've had candida coming out of me each morning I think! sorry if that is TMI, but it's happening hahahaha
     
    Anne V likes this.
  20. Anne V

    Anne V Silver

    have you try fasting, intermittent ,or up to 3 days . i do and i enjoy it . i drink snake juice when i do, check it out cole robinson. he swears a bit, but who cares :)
     
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