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Calling all Face Dunkers..

Discussion in 'Cold Thermogenesis' started by Kathy, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. Kathy

    Kathy New Member

    I'm on day 7 of face dunking. Would love to compare notes...



    I use ice water in a bowl to dunk, my iphone stopwatch to time and then check the temperature of both cheeks (have noticed one is consistently a few degrees warmer). Usually do 2 sessions a day, am & pm. For the first few days, I only did two or three attempts per session. This morning, I didn't even count my attempts, I was more interested in seeing how low temperature-wise I could get my skin - guessing I did 6 or 7 dunks.



    I haven't tracked everything every session but a few numbers. Data format is

    Max time(seconds)/Lowest skin temp(f)/Water temp(f)





    Column 1
    [TR]
    [TD]DAY[/TD]
    [TD]AM time/water/skin[/TD]
    [TD]PM sec/water/skin[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]1[/TD]
    [TD]18"//[/TD]
    [TD]20"//[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2[/TD]
    [TD]20"//[/TD]
    [TD]20"//[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]3[/TD]
    [TD]27"/60°/47°[/TD]
    [TD]30"/59°/[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD]30"/65°/[/TD]
    [TD]23"/59°/[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [TD]40"/59°/50°[/TD]
    [TD]24"/57°/[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]6[/TD]
    [TD]none[/TD]
    [TD]30"/58°/[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]7[/TD]
    [TD]35"/58°/49°[/TD]
    [TD]32"/56°/48°[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8[/TD]
    [TD]34"/58°/50°[/TD]
    [TD]45"/56°/48°[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]9[/TD]
    [TD]45"/56°/50°[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
     
  2. optimeyes

    optimeyes New Member

    I haven't done the face dunking, I am just taking colder and colder showers. I only started it last week but I am pleased that I am making headway. I am a person who previously liked the shower to be scalding hot. Oh, I also went in the 78 degree pool the other day (I'm in Florida, we are pretty wussy about cold water b/c the pool can actually get up to 100 degrees mid summer... so getting int0 78 degree water was a big deal LOL)
     
  3. Marsha

    Marsha New Member

    Hi Kathy- I'm a fairly new face dunker - decided to try a snorkel and that has helped to stay in longer. I'm using a kitchen instant read thermometer to gage both water temp and skin temp. Works great on the water - right out of my tap in Colorado its 50degrees and if I let run a bit, gets down to 47 - 48. However, can't really get an accurate number on my skin...60.8 - 65.0 is the lowest, but still new at this. What device are you using on your skin?



    (The reason I have to 'come up' with the snorkel is there's so much mucus draining from my nose/sinuses! The first time felt like an infection would start - kind of ache- but decided to change my mind's thought on that and say it was just the new normal - getting rid of loads of gunk!) Hoping that the longer I can stay in the water, the closer I'll get to 55de on my skin.



    I've also started the spot ice packs on back and belly. Found this gizmo at Bed Bath & Beyond for $10

    http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=18700786&RN=200& I know it says it 'melts fat from heat', but I put it on the tightest I can (Has a bunch of zippers - fits up to 50" waist) to hold my ice packs in - front and back! Worked really well and maybe it's even big enough to hold ice packs around my butt!:)



    I think you are doing a terrific job, Kathy - being so scientific and all - keep up your resolve!
     
  4. Kathy

    Kathy New Member

    Thanks Marsha. I spent a long time trying various treatments without self-tracking, not the most efficient way to go when your main complaints are brain fog, memory, inability to focus, etc. At least I finally realized that I need to write things down :eek:



    I'm using this thermometer from amazon. There's a button to turn off the laser, not sure if it's actually bad to point the laser at my skin but I try not to do that.



    I've also have the mucus draining, I think DrK said it was expected in one of the comments... seems to be subsiding from the first few days though.



    Snorkel's an interesting idea. I'm not sure why I pull my face out sometimes. I think I can hold my breath for longer than this - maybe I should time that.

    Kathy
     
  5. DarleenMB

    DarleenMB Silver

    I've tried twice but have to keep coming up for air. Plus I ran the water straight from the tap and it's about 44 degrees so I need to add in a bit of warm next time.



    I thought about trying to use a regular plastic straw as a kind of snorkel. Will let you all know how that works.



    Annnd I've turn my showers down from "turn me lobster red" hot to barely above body temp tepid. Done it twice that way now and this morning added a dash of cold water at the end which, surprisingly, felt GREAT as opposed to the tepid which I didn't like at all. Made me fee really chilled. shrug.



    I do like your chart, Kathy. I'll implement that.
     
  6. mshobbs

    mshobbs Silver

    Hi Guys,



    I have been doing the face dunking for the past 3 weeks, the last 2 along with the baths.

    I have managed to get to 10mins with the face using a snorkel. I find the time flies while I'm in there.

    Most of the time I can get it down to 55, but it is a struggle with the tap water coming out at around 80 so there is plenty of ice. The baths I struggle to get below 60 - but it a start I guess. Coming into autumn now so the tap water should start to cool down very shortly.
     
  7. fitness@home

    fitness@home Silver

    Hi,



    About six face baths for me so far. Water temp begins at about 49 degrees. I also set the timer on my cell phone. Have made it up to 10 minutes (coming up for breaths of air included). Next investment is skin thermometer!



    Tried a regular bath last night...tap water was 69. Did not use ice...just wanted to see what it was like.
     
  8. David

    David Silver

    Like Marsha, I have been using a snorkel in a sink of iced water to allow more contact time. Initially, my eyes felt so cold that bordered on pain, like a brain freeze from eating ice cream, and I would have to stop and start the dunking sessions, usually four sessions before the ice was exhausted. I had no idea what my skin temperature was at the time, but my face turned cherry-red, like a sunburn. The headaches diminished after a very few days and I could increase the immersion time. Then I got the device mentioned by Kathy (above) and I could measure the temperature of both the water and my skin. I soon was soon able to go over five minutes, and my measured skin temperature got to below 60F.



    Not so long ago I would stand in a steaming shower for an extended period every morning, just because it really felt good. Because of that, I really felt that even tepid water would be objectionable. Over the past week or so I have been drinking a pint of ice water and starting my shower at a warm setting and slowly turning the water to the coldest setting, trying to stand under the water for a few minutes. It was very difficult and seemed VERY cold to me.



    Well, today I stepped into the shower at the coldest setting, measured at 64F (YIKES! THAT WAS A SHOCK!) but I soon, "soon" being an eternity, seemed to become numbed to the cold and I was able to stay in the cold shower for half an hour. I could have stayed longer, but I was a bit pressed for time this morning. Maybe I am making some progress.



    I should add that I now eat bitter melon with my BAB menu and I have been trying to eat kippers, sardines and salmon every day, so my omega 3 level may now be much improved. I also supplement with krill oil and fish oil every day, along with 10,000 IU D3 and most of the supplements recommended by Dr Kruse.



    I now have a compression shirt and I will give the next stage, body-icing, a try soon. It may be a very good use of time to be able to do CT while working at the computer or reading. Hope I'm not just trying to avoid the cold tub ...
     
  9. Kathy

    Kathy New Member

    Feel that.
     
  10. AKMan

    AKMan New Member

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0031938486900181



    This article explains what you are trying to do with face dunking, sorry I couldn't cut and paste, won't allow it for some reason...



    Basically, the face dunk elicits the 'mammailian dive reflex', a state we all enter when we dive into water. In the study I linked above, volunteers held their breath and plunged their face into 73 degree water. Their heartrate and other vitals were monitored, and it was determined to take between 12 and 40 seconds for all of the volunteers to show signs of the dive reflex.



    If you click the link, you will see the abbreviations FI and BH. These mean Face immersion and Breath Holding. It was found that to elicit the dive reflex, you had to do BOTH. FI and BH. That makes me think the snorkle is a bad idea!



    So, I would say, 12-40 seconds is long enough and the water temp isn't real important.



    As Dr. K says numerous times, this is an introductory step!
     
  11. DarleenMB

    DarleenMB Silver

    So I tried the "drinking straw as snorkel" this morning. didn't work out so well. So I just held my breath. I managed a whole 60 seconds (breath breaks included) before my eyebrows announced they were COLD and to stop doing THAT!



    Be careful how long (number of days) you face dunk. Somewhere in all that verbiage from the good doc he mentions that too much and you will lose fat from your face. Remember, the face dunk is meant to be the first introductory step to the cold bath. ok /forumnazimode
     
  12. David

    David Silver


    I agree. Although, I wonder if breath control is otherwise significant and may have been a part of the adaptation phase, as well. Wim Hof ("Iceman") has said that control over his breathing is very important to his ability to endure cold.
     
  13. Kathy

    Kathy New Member

  14. Marsha

    Marsha New Member

    Akman-thanks for the advice.



    I couldn't open the article without paying for it! I really wanted to learn about the mammalian dive reflex. Why do we need to reach this stage? How does it help us adapt to cold water?
     
  15. David

    David Silver

    Marsha, here is some basic information, hope it helps.



    Mammalian Dive Reflex http://www.emedicinehealth.com/drowning/article_em.htm

    Drowning suffocation causes a lack of oxygen, resulting in death in only a few minutes. An exception to this rule appears in victims who have been suddenly and rapidly submerged into ice-cold water (
     
  16. Darn it on the dive reflex! Akman and others, that does sound right. I read about it - but didn't make the connection with holding breath along with dunking.



    That being said, definetely had some "adaptation" on face during my 2.5 weeks of facing the ice bowl. Here is my experience.



    First day, 5 sec, 10 sec - pain!

    2nd day, 20 sec, 45 sec - tiny bit uncomfortable - came up for breath.

    3rd day, added snorkle, 5 mins no problem then 6 mins no problem.

    4- 16th day, all with snorkle, adding 2 mins a day till 20 mins. I could have gone forever except from boredom and leaning over a bowl.



    I used an infrared therm to make sure my face was below 55 degrees (water about 35-40) During the 10+ min soaks, had to add a little more ice to the bowl.



    Nostrils filled with mucous - I was thinking it was to keep ice water out of my sinus cavity. Never had water up my nose issues after the first 2 times. I did have gobs of clear goo to clear out after the soak.



    With the breath holding in mind, I may change to soaking as long as I can hold my breath and see if I can increase breath holding times.



    I moved to Showers after that, worked my way from 5 sec to 1 min. Hated it whole time! On to ice packs and soon baths.
     
  17. One other interesting thing. . .at first my eyes hurt the most. Towards the end, my eyes felt nothing and I was even able to open them under water and found that part of the relaxing.
     

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