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Bun to Creatinine Ratio?

Discussion in 'Optimal Labs' started by persistence, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. persistence

    persistence New Member

    I have seen references in several places to the importance of the BUN to Creatinine ratio. Can someone please provide some guidance on what numbers are considered high, normal, good, etc?

    What does this ratio show us?
  2. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    It is the quick easy dirty way to asses your redox potential on your inner mitochondrial membrane. Ideally it should be below 7:1
    rlee314 and Aerose91 like this.
  3. persistence

    persistence New Member

    Mine is 13:

    Urea Nitrogen, Blood (BUN): 12
    Creatinine, Serum: 0.92

    So this means I am not a fat-burner? If I were on a fully ketogenic diet producing lots of ketones, these numbers would gradually change?

    Sorry, I'm at kindergarden level on this.
  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    no....it means your redox is good not optimal.......it means your cytochrome 1 is not screwed. It means you can do a lot to get better.
  5. Jude

    Jude Gold

    Persistence...you're certainly true to your name;)....really enjoy reading your posts and recognise your huge passion for learning and the amount of research you've done.............but one day you are just going to have to read all the blogs ......you certainly seem to have nailed lots BUT it would be so much better for you if you would just read them......... :):):)
    Lahelada and caroline like this.
  6. persistence

    persistence New Member

    My latest labs had BUN at 7 and Creatinine at 0.60 (low value). That seems to be an improvement on the ratio, but the Creatinine value is below normal range.

    Out of range values on this same test:

    Low Serum Sodium 129
    Low Serum Chloride 92
    Low Serum Creatinine 0.60
    High SGOT/AST 60
    High SGPT/ALT 53

    The high liver enzymes is something totally new. They weren't high three weeks ago.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  7. persistence

    persistence New Member

    My latest labs have BUN/Creatinine at 10. BUN = 8 and Creatinine, Serum is 0.78.

    I guess that is moving in the right direction but I have no idea what it all means still.

    Is Redox Rx the best place to read about this?
  8. Jude

    Jude Gold

    rlee314 likes this.
  9. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    From the reference, The redox Rx

    I could use more direct instructions on how to improve on items #1 and #5

    #1-- "lubrication or small ejaculate size are all signs of a lowered redox potential", want to improve/restore.
    #5-- "Dreaming is usually a sign of a good redox potential." I rarely dream.

    rlee314 likes this.
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Jansz Josh can tell you what your main problem is after spending the last 3 days with me..........you live in Jersey . You have electron steal syndrome. The amount of non native EMF around Jersey is astounding.........compared to most cities.

    When your atmosphere is loaded with non native electromagnetic force it is pulling electrons from every part of your body you lose your magnetic sense..........So this means if you lose the ability to sense magnetism; than you have only 2 of the 3 legs of stool working in your semiconductors. If you do not think this is a big deal realize right now that Mars has 2 out of 3 of the main variables for life. It is a dead red planet.

    A magnetico has a massive benefit when you live in an extreme environment. Every person on the face of this planet lives on an extreme planet now; Jersey happens to be one of the worse areas geographically in our country...................Your zip code determines the rate of electron loss the best...............We did not evolve on a planet without a magnetic force...........our species just created one in the last 120 years.
    rlee314, caroline and dan.orloski22 like this.
  11. dan.orloski22

    dan.orloski22 Silver

    rlee314 likes this.
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    ^^ yep
    dan.orloski22 likes this.
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    When electrons are not present on your cell membrane you lose the ability to retain intracellular water. This is often why so many people can drink water but it never seems to address their BUN/creatine ratio. Kidney failure is an extreme example of a loss of membrane charge ability.
  14. dan.orloski22

    dan.orloski22 Silver

    Jack I'm really starting to get it. My ratio was 19 to 1 two years ago but I need to get labs this summer to access where im at. I need to become a electron pacman haha
  15. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

  16. persistence

    persistence New Member

    Is BUN/Creatine ratio really just a way to monitor hydration status? I noticed online that a high BUN/Creatine ratio is evidence of dehydration.

    What would it mean if you have strong thirst (and a sensation of needing water) even with a low BUN/Creatine ratio?
  17. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    ^^^^^Dude what part of this are you not getting loud and clear? >>>>When electrons are not present on your cell membrane you lose the ability to retain intracellular water. This is often why so many people can drink water but it never seems to address their BUN/creatine ratio.

    Water needs to be adjacent to a hydrophilic protein to bind to it.........electrons make proteins hydrophilic.

    What is it all about?

  18. persistence

    persistence New Member

    But in my case I have a BUN/Creatine ratio below 10. Dehydration is defined as above 20.

    So how would this case apply to me and explain my sense of thirst?
  19. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Your brain and peripheral system are not yoked........in other words your peripheral tank has adjusted before your brain........which tells me your issue might be a lack of iodine via the choroid plexus in the CSF. Cold around head or neck or breathing in colder air might help this.
    Hope likes this.
  20. persistence

    persistence New Member

    Would dietary iodine supplementation address this? What would be a reasonable range of doses to experiment around? I would be using J. Crow's Lugol's Solution 2%, but I could use another if you prefer it. I have always put iodine off because of my food intolerance issues, and I figured iodine might amplify immune response *if* I have a leaky gut (not diagnosed yet). But I think I should test using iodine now. In terms of dosing, is there any reason to take this more than once a day or is once in morning sufficient?

    What you said about my brain and body not being in synch strikes a deep chord with me. I think there is some kind of disconnect there. At the same time, going low carb did put my body into some kind of real distress, and even in ketosis with high ketone levels my body never seems to really adapt. It's like my brain is not able to reset correctly in that new metabolic environment.

    As one example of that, the other day I did a very moderate workout (30 minutes walk / light jog and later that day 30 minutes lifting four sets in gym). That night I lost four pounds of body weight (calibrated against two different scales). I never went to the bathroom, so that body weight must be just water loss through my breathing. That's two liters of water being lost in less than nine hours, just by breathing. This is reinforced by my having a sense of thirst, having somewhat labored and deep breathing, etc. Yet I go to the doctor with those symptoms and they tell me my bun/creatine levels say I am not dehydrated. As I increase the level of carbs in diet, these symptoms lessen. At this point I am going to start increasing carb levels just to establish how the body responds to that and how much resolution I can get on symptoms.

    If I go to neurologist about this, I guess he is just going to look at me in a funny way and not really be able to address the issue?

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