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BUN:Creatinine Ratio

Discussion in 'Optimal Labs' started by BJK77, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. I took notes from the webinar and put down for BUN/Creatinine ratio should be <10. At another time I had recorded that 10-15 was OK but this last webinar he did say <10.
  2. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    Obviously I misunderstood what Jack was telling me...guess I need to go back and re-listen to my consults.... j
  3. tellmisty

    tellmisty Administrator

    Optimal is <7. <10 is okay.
    *~Allison~* likes this.
  4. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    And why are you having low progesterone?
    After you identified that it is low, next step is to supplement it.

    I prefer to give first opportunity to pregnenolone MLM pills from Nutricology.
    That gives me all the progesterone I need
    all the cortisol I need.

    I am man.
    Women's progesterone requirements in first half of cycle are same as men.
    That is 1.5ng/mL

    The 1.5 ng/mL is normal naturally expected value.
    With my normal estradiol about 20pg/mL that gives my P/E ratio about 60
    Women in day 3-4 should have E2 about 40pg/mL that would give P/E ratio about 30

    Think how much you need to raise progesterone
    dr Lam wants P/E~200
    dr Kruse wants P/E~500

    and you have 30 or less.

    No wonder dr Kruse mentioned pregnant women as good example of being properly hydrated.

    − First trimester: 8.8- 48.6 ng/mL
    − Second trimester: 12.4-75.8 ng/mL
    − Third trimester: 58.5-222.3 ng/mL

    So far, using pregnenolone MLM only I was able to get
    good pregnenolone at about top range
    progesterone almost 5ng/dL, so about 2.5 times of what I would otherwise try to get
    good morning cortisol

    Feeling good,
    time to open oxytocin co-op.


    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  5. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    My thoughts are with you Dali - that is a tough one.....but manageable......
  6. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    I have quite high Pregnenolone but low Pg and low am cortisol. Pg supplementation is bringing it up - but slowly and still not nearly high enough. I can't understand why the preg is so high and it doesn't seem to be converting to PG - any thoughts?
  7. BJK77

    BJK77 New Member

    Wow! Thanks so much for all this input. I posed the question and then got tied up in an emergency at work and didn't get a chance to do any research or check back here for comments.

    I guess I'm pretty dehydrated then (which I actually don't find all that surprising) since my ratio is coming in at 27. I know in one of my last consults Jack suggested I try RO water for at least 2-3 months, but I can't find any that I'm convinced wouldn't have fluoride since it all seems to originate from city water. I'm going to try to head to Costco or BJ's within the next week or so to see if they carry any decent brands.

    As of now I am getting about 1.25 gallons of spring water/day. My Pg has been steadily increasing . . . I can only imagine how pathetic my ratio would have been had I looked into it last year or even 6 months ago!
  8. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Really good info on the BUN/Cr thing happening here. Mine's 12.7 to 1.
  9. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    hormone's names
    what was tested, serum, saliva, blood spot, spot urine, 24hr urine, else
    when tested, cycle day # or state that menopausal
    was all list from one specimen or the values are from different specimens, different dates different laboratories
    laboratory range
    specify details of any hormonal supplementation, what, what form, how much, where, how often

    When supplementing with pregnenolone, barring negative symptoms, you may want to use high dose at least until "empty buckets fill up". At the beginning, using frequent blood testing as a guide, for number of months, I was using 900mg/day pregnenolone-MLM
    400mg/day DHEA

    When evaluating progesterone, always against laboratory ranges, and second pass, against estradiol and total estrogens

    In view of dr Lam's goal of P/E2~200
    dr Kruse's P/E2~500
    close to 100% people will be short on progesterone (men and women)
    so just saying that you are low on progesterone does not tell much

    singular cortisol-AM value that is low, is already bad news
    must be investigated from number of angles
    but, if you put good faith effort into Steroid Hormone Optimization, it may just fix itself in the process

    Reading your journal, you are doing many things right and last time you had menstrual flow was some time ago, or more, regardless of people suspecting you of being pregnant.

    Here, I wrote:
    if menapausal aim at
    progesterone, serum (15-30)ng/mL
    estradiol, serum (40-60) pg/mL

    I suggest, heavy duty:
    Steroid Hormone Panel Optimization
    Micronutrient Analysis and Optimization
    Fatty Acid Analysis and optimization

    No fish or krill oils supplementation

    I would tend to (put honest effort to) minimize direct progesterone and hydrocortisone supplementation
    in favor of

    You may want to do Visual Contrast Testing - VCT (ask Martin about it)(I think it is available over computer), just not sure how that depends on monitor type
    possibly detox
    followup supplementation
    you fail Visual Contrast Test
    I suggest that you buy this book (directly from dr Patricia Kane, so you can get latest revision)


    I am not sure, but your numb legs, may get better with heavy phospholipid supplementation,
    and any specific detox as suggested by results of VCT and Fatty Acid Analysis.

    Last edited: May 8, 2013
  10. Hope

    Hope Gold

    Wow, JanSz that is amazing info you shared. I need to study the cascade a lot more....my PG and pregnenolone is slowly coming up too.

    Speaking of dehydration and BUNC ratio....would you mind sharing again the calculator for the TBD? I can't find it for some reason, UGH. I tried here and via google.....

    Audrey, have you figured out the answer to your question about PG and pregnenolone?
  11. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    Not sure what calculator you are after.

    Some are here:

    p/e ratio calculator is here:



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