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Discussion in 'The Cave' started by PaulG, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    Peter after reading your follow up comments to the one I replied to, I am in awe of your wisdom. I aspire to attain that wisdom myself.
     
  2. prAna303

    prAna303 New Member

    But indeed we are but so are you and me also... We are from the same stuff.

    I also do create some art, i have from my early years painted a lot, it got to a halt when i decided that business was my career... Eight years ago, when i looped back to age 16 i took it up again. Among us climbers that climb for the urge to do that, not those who use it as a training session, there is many who create... Many are quite special as persons also, we live in dirty cars, eating dogfood and are simply obsessed with life.

    All of this touch of nature makes the memories come back, memories of the world thru many times. Perhaps, when i get these kicks from nature i feel the need to store that sensation in arts. We get so touched in our hearts that we must try to give the clues to other to follow.

    Like i said, would have been great to attend to those webinars but as i said, being broke on money... But i think i know what was said, perhaps i can not speak and write it in a proper way, english is to complicated for me, guess you got to know ME also when you heard Jeremy.
     
    Shijin13 likes this.
  3. prAna303

    prAna303 New Member

    Thanks... I bow my head.

    Wisdom is a word for connection i think. You get this by being open, naked and accepting it. Everyone has the ability, just trust that your skin, your ears, all of your unit is a carrier of things, just activate them and pretty much everything falls into place.
     
    Shijin13 likes this.
  4. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    Reconnection is the key to survival. Disconnection is the key to destruction. The interesting thing - the same key opens both doors.
     
  5. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    you know it.....................and you are right
     
    Shijin13 likes this.
  6. sooperb

    sooperb New Member

    It isn't possible to divorce yourself from the modern world. Humans have progressed from caves because of their brains, they are naturally inventive and competitive. Whilst natural living is attractive there's no way that everyone could achieve it and not everyone would want to. Those who have chosen to revert are only able to do so because either they have only themselves to please or because not everyone has chosen to opt out. If all humankind decided to "live optimally" society would degenerate. It's easy for a few to live on the margins of society while there are others who are keeping everything ticking over, if everyone gave up then there would be chaos, starvation, civil strife.

    As individuals we can choose to remove ourselves, but it isn't long before the finger pointing starts at those not being productive being carried by those who are.
     
    Lahelada and NeilBB like this.
  7. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Sue I think I know what you are trying to say...
    might be what I am thinking too but I am starting to get too sleepy for getting it into something understandable... i need to go to bed!
     
  8. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    I don't know that many people have ever tried to. The occasional person opted to live with the Indians -- some of these societies were effectively mesolithic societies albeit mesolithic societies with the horse and rifle -- in 18th and 19th century America. These were usually children, abducted when still fairly young and usually boys. Harder for older people to adapt to a large change in life, of course; and the life was more attractive to males, since they relished the "freedom" (in one sense of that difficult word) -- and the relative absence of work.

    Much of the labour around camp in hunting societies was, of course, done by women. Some boys when returned to civilisation expected their mothers or sisters to carry out tasks for them in a way that would not have been usual in white society.

    Some seem to have had trouble re-adjusting in various ways -- in some cases permanently.

    Scott Zesch is interesting on abducted children:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Captured-Abduction-Indians-Frontier/dp/0312317891/

    As the U.S. expanded westwards there were a few ne'er-do-wells and criminals on the run who kept ahead of the frontier and stayed at Native American villages. I don't know they could be described as trying to divorce themselves from the modern world, though. I think it was more a case of avoiding justice and exploiting the openings available to them in those villages in terms of buying and selling, women, etc. -- till things got too hot to handle and they had to move on from there.

    I think anyone brought up in a modern Western society would find any pre-modern society constricting after a while. From about the 12th century onwards European society became increasingly individualistic -- one could say that the opportunities for people to think different thoughts, to do different things, to live their lives in many radically different ways blossomed. Michael Oakeshott gives a good account:

    http://www.amazon.com/On-Human-Conduct-Michael-Oakeshott/dp/0198271956/

    If you could throw everything up and go and live with a hunting band ... well, that might suit some people, at least for a time. Nice not to have to clock on. But many people not brought up that way would find sooner or later having to do things just as the ancestors did, instead of how they personally might choose, irksome.

    But if we can live in a way that takes account of our history and culture but also of our basic humanity -- particularly our "physical" being -- then that would be good. I think that's what the Ancestral Health Movement as a whole is probably about,
     
  9. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    I kind of think you guys are taking all this too literally ..... I think the point is to connect with mother nature and let her laws guide us.

    Jeremy hasn't given up his sculptor ... and Dr. Kruse hasn't given up cracking coconuts. Both of these things put them in EMF hell ...so they have to do extraordinary things to do the things they love.

    I now see the simple beauty all around me .... I can sit at the ocean for hours. I talk to all kinds of people - I talk to children - I talk to dogs.......

    I live in the real world ..... but I am really engaging my senses ..... and really living.

    To me - that is what they are talking about.

    To see the beauty around us - to touch someone you care about .... or gently touch a stranger you are talking too.
    To understand the importance of everyone passing thru your life .......they give me so much on a daily basis.

    I am sitting on my balcony watching the trees move gently, I can see the ocean in the distance and feel the sun on my skin. I feel like the luckiest person alive...... That isn't hyperbole.....This is what I choose - this what I have learned from Jack and Jeremy and Erwan ...and most of all my DH. I am a work in progress!

    I will never live in the wild like Peter .......I don't have Inger's intuition .... I will never climb rocks like Jeremy or be a talented sculptor .... I will never have the brain power of Jack.....but I can be the best version of myself.

    That is what I am learning......
     
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Jeremy does it...........just because you do not feel you can does not mean someone else can not.
     
  11. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    I don't understand this^^^^ Is this what you got from what I said?

    I think everyone has to dance at the edge of their own life - whatever it might be.... I need to do the things that excite me and move me forward .... just as you do and Jeremy does .......
     
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    When someone tells anyone "no," it doesn't mean they can't do it, it simply means he can't do it with them.
     
    caroline likes this.
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Caroline it was not for you....
     
  14. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    I guess I meant to say .... I am a little too old to be a rock climber - but I do walk around on the rocks at the ocean here. I don't have the talent of a sculptor - but I have other talents. Inger has massive intuition that, I would guess , comes from major heartaches and learning to rise above. I do have good intuition tho and you have taught me to trust that.
    I clearly don't have your brain power ....but that doesn't mean I am stupid ......and I do love trying to understand all this!
    I push myself everyday to do better ..... isn't what this is all about?
     
  15. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    man - I always miss that .....
     
  16. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    oddly - this has been my mantra my whole life ..... telling me no - you can't do that - it is impossible.....was like lighting a fire underneath me!
     
    Shijin13 likes this.
  17. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    I'm not sure Jack would agree, but personally I think there is a tremendous amount of wisdom in what you are saying, whether those of us deeply interested in Ancestral health like it or not.

    I don't believe it is possible or maybe even desirable for humanity to really fully go backwards. I believe that the only way out is through. What is possible though and indeed necessary is a general societal understanding of the detrimental aspects of technology and civilization on our biology. Only then can we ultimately have the best of both worlds. Maybe. If it's not too late...
     
    sooperb, Lahelada and Hope like this.
  18. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I guess you missed the essence of my and Jeremy's point..........we said it clearly 3 times. BEGIN WHERE YOU ARE NOW. If you can not rock climb you can swim no? It give many of the same signals to collagen to for the network you body requires.
     
  19. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Life is the ultimate example of complexity at work. An organism, whether it is a bacterium or Jeremy, develops through an incredibly complex series of interactions involving a vast number of different components. These components, or subsystems, are themselves made up of smaller molecular components, which independently exhibit their own dynamic behavior, such as the ability to catalyze chemical reactions. Yet when they are combined into some larger functioning unit--such as a cell or tissue--utterly new and unpredictable properties emerge, including the ability to move, to change shape and to grow.
     
  20. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Because modern biology BELIEVES genes are the "blueprints" for the key molecules in life, they ignore the substrates like proteins. This is the Holy Grail Central Dogma of molecular biology. People like Richard Dawkins believe his neo Darwinist ideas will lead in the near future to a catalogue of essentially all the molecules from which a human is created and begin to figure it out...........we have known it now for some time..........guess what? We still do not know shit. Why?

    Dawkins and Darwin are missing the key elements.
     
    NeilBB and Lahelada like this.

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