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Body by Science

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Raiken3712, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon

    So I just got done reading The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living/The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance and Body by Science. I'm revved up and ready to go...but somehow I missed the part where they tell you where to start as far as weight goes.



    I read something about 80% of your max ...I don't know my max. I got into the fitness room and lets just say I didn't get anywhere close to going to positive failure. Which for those who haven't read the book means pulling or pushing the weight until you can't anymore. You keep trying for a good fifteen seconds at the end of a move like chest press and that's when you are done with that set.



    If it helps I'm 6'1" 28 years old 29 on the 27th of October...I guess I could just say 29....its close enough..anyway. I've been obese for awhile and am still losing weight...I think I'm technically overweight now...not sure but I'm down to 241 from a high of 275 in recent history and my high quite awhile ago was 297. I'd really like to get some strength but need to know where to start. Also either the machines at this Recreation center suck...I think they do and/or I need to make adjustments because I couldn't seem to get in the leg press without my lower back hurting. I tried adjusting the seat and such but couldn't get it to a good point.
     
  2. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    cool......let us know how it goes.
     
  3. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Raiken, about two years ago I was doing "Slow Burn" fitness, where I lifted weights in slow motion until muscle failure. Did it once a week, for 30-45 minutes. Every week I had to use bigger weights to get to the point of failure in 3-6 repetitions. It was awesome, how my muscles responded to this. It was literally 'no sweat'. I was amazed at how strong I became in just a few weeks, eating VLC Paleoish. It was explained that it is when you really try to lift the weight, but the muscle can't do it, that was when the real improvement starts.



    I haven't exercised in well over a year, though. Lately I've been relying on CT to build my muscles. One of these days I'm going to try combining CT, EPI paleo, and weight lifting, when I'm through addressing hormonal issues. I think it will be fun and interesting.
     
  4. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    I've got the book... and I've kicked it around (reading that is) and occasionally I'd like to get back into heavy lifting... but for the longest time didn't have access to a gym - now I DO - I could swing down 1x/week and do a BBS lift session (There's going to be plenty of spotters there too) I could knock it out legs, back, chest, w/ heavy weights. I may think on this. b/c I can pay $5 for a daily pass 1x/week instead of buying a whole 6mth pass.



    But I'm also interested in seeing what basic convict conditioning of BW exercises done slowly in good form until failure can do for me as well strength wise...



    things to think about.
     
  5. ealachan

    ealachan New Member


    In that case, wouldn't it make sense to just skip right to the part where you lift something REALLY heavy just a few times, then? That way you're entering that phase of failure much more quickly / efficiently?



    I know literally nothing about lifting, so take that into account before you skewer me, everyone...:)
     
  6. It helps to ease into it for the first 3 sessions, get your muscles the muscle memory going full throttle so you can really start to bulk up the weights. With that being said, when starting you can do it 2X a week or once every 3-4 days. If you've not done a particular movement or machine before - this is important.



    Sometimes when working on your own, you just can't start right in with a 90 second maximum weight with any accuracy. . .



    So just go start. Pick some weight that feels heavy, but that you can lift with good and smooth movement. You may have to do more reps when you first start.



    By session 4, you will find your body knows what's happening, as well as your mind - then you can start counting seconds and cranking weight and really getting the metabolic effects.



    My point - this isn't something that you just START with a perfect movement so your workout is only X mins. The important thing is to start at something comfortable but meaningfull (if that means more reps, then so be it). . work till you get the wobbly arms/legs. Then you can start to "tighten up". things AFTER your neurons and muscles get the feel for what is going to happen.



    If your weight is over 200 lbds body weight is probably a good choice. . .although I find it more boring and it doesn't satisfy my like for tracking and increasing in a measured way.
     
  7. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver


    Actually, after the first few times, the weights were starting to get really heavy. But I didn't want to overdo it.

    I found that my joints were also a limiting factor, more than my muscles. If I wasn't careful, my wrists or knees would hurt for a few days afterwards. So I err'd on the side of caution.
     

  8. Did you CT after your workouts? The cold should help recovery time and reduce inflammation. Just curious.
     
  9. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver


    No. This was before Jack created this website.
     
  10. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon

    I guess I have to trial and error it....I guess I need to stop being lazy and do it. I wish I had the money for a personal trainer...one that knows BBS.
     

  11. Raiken, check your pm inbox. I'll help you out. (one of the hats I wear says PT)
     
  12. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65529.html#post947356



    I posted also in this thread.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post

    Find a weight you can just about shift, it shouldn't take long. Then, use a weight 75-80% of that and use good form to raise and lower it taking between 10 and 12 seconds or so per rep. When you just cannot move it any more, try for just a couple of seconds and then stop. Keep breathing, I sort of hyperventilate to make sure that I do not hold my breath and strain. When I get to 7 to 9 reps, I go to the next weight up. I get jelly legs and spaghetti arms after a session. I've been doing this since the beginning of July at one session a week and have always done more reps or had to add more weight.



    What does one do when the maximum weight is too small? I ask as I'll be using the maximum for my Leg Press starting next week.

    Just about shift as in almost lift but not quite? So that would be a weight above my max. That's why you said 75-80 instead of 80....that makes sense. If I understand you correctly.
     

  13. You can switch to single leg on the leg press at ~50% of current weight. (helps to keep your working leg relatively centered under your hips).



    Sweet spot is 90 seconds to failure. You measure progress by energy expended, not by weight or reps.



    Time under load, not reps is what matters in this style of training. Once you get over 90 you up the weight. Your tempo may be 10 seconds, or 7, or 13, the key for tempo is that you want smooth action without stick points.



    You could use this method with isometric loading (non moving) as well as long as you are going long enough to exhaust all muscle fibers, including the fight/flight fast twitch fibers. This is how bio-density training works, though you feel odd just pushing against a stationary object. It's certainly more fun to move.
     
  14. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon

    Sorry if that was confusing...the part about What does one do when the maximum weight is too small was part of Nigel's post not mine. My words are



    Just about shift as in almost lift but not quite? So that would be a weight above my max. That's why you said 75-80 instead of 80....that makes sense. If I understand you correctly.



    Which was in response to this



    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post

    "Find a weight you can just about shift, it shouldn't take long. Then, use a weight 75-80% of that and use good form to raise and lower it taking between 10 and 12 seconds or so per rep. When you just cannot move it any more, try for just a couple of seconds and then stop. Keep breathing, I sort of hyperventilate to make sure that I do not hold my breath and strain. When I get to 7 to 9 reps, I go to the next weight up. I get jelly legs and spaghetti arms after a session. I've been doing this since the beginning of July at one session a week and have always done more reps or had to add more weight."
     
  15. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon


  16. Hard to judge strength by pics, as size does not dictate work capacity. Some body builders are much much weaker than they look, and some small guys are deceptively strong.



    Try a weight you can manage, lift at a non HIT tempo as many times as you can and plug it in here.



    http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/orm.htm



    I'd recommend starting with 65% of that value for the first HIT session. You will fail at some point, it is not imperative to be within a certain time.





    Ensure you are set up properly (joint of machine action is centered on your joint of action).

    Try to resist the fight/flight temptation to stop (it can be overwhelming). You might start shaking, remember to breathe. Know that at that point you are too weak to hurt yourself and go as hard as you can. Be careful standing up after the leg press, as you have replaced them with two bags of jello.



    From there, it's interpolation/extrapolation, or trial and error. If you do say, 250lbs on the leg press and you fail at 3 minutes there is too little load.
     
  17. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon

    One Rep Max Calculator



    Just used this and plugged in 23 reps at 50 pounds for a one rep max of 129 seated row, 120 pounds at 65 reps one rep max -154 legpress...confused, and 10 reps at 70 pounds for a one rep max pulldown.



    Does this not work if you use rep numbers that are too high? I guess I just don't understand the tool I'm using.



    96.75 Seated Row, 115.5 Leg Press???, 69.75 Pulldown.
     
  18. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon

    Pulldown seems quite a bit less than Seated Row...does this make any sense? Maybe its because I already did Seated row and Pulldown uses some of the same muscles? Maybe I didn't really go to muscular failure...hmm



    Oh well its a starting point I guess I can refine it as time goes on.
     
  19. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon

    Do I need to lower the weight or just increase time between workouts? I need to read Body by Science again I think....I forget things too easy...I think I know what to do but not sure.



    My first BBS workout after finding out a starting weight ended in 7 reps at 90 lb 1:30 TUL Seated Row, 12 reps 200 lb 1:30 TUL Leg Press, and Pulldown 10 reps 70 lb 1:50 TUL.



    My second was Seated row 90 lb 7 reps 1:05 TUL, No Leg Press Machine, 60 lb 12 rep 2:00 TUL Pulldown, 95 lb 7 rep 1:10 TUL Shoulder Press



    So whats next?



    I'm thinking I need to reduce weight and/or allow more recovery for Seated row, and increase weight for the pulldown?



    I hate being new to stuff feel so lost...
     
  20. Raiken3712

    Raiken3712 Jonathan/Jon

    Yes, Seated row was 25 seconds less with the same reps and weight.



    That was the Pulldown...forgot to label it.



    I just realized my TULs may be meaningless at the moment...even though I started out intending to do a 10 sec cadence....I ended up doing free form ...just trying to do the movement at a steady pace and do it correctly. If my cadence was faster that probably accounts for the decrease in TUL on the Seated Row.



    ....I really have to have a set cadence for my numbers to mean anything...unless I'm thinking about it incorrectly....I mean number of reps at weight still means something but trying to stay within a 60-90 sec window without a standard cadence of 4 up 4 down or 10 up 10 down or whatever ......



    If this thinking is correct let me know...also I would love for input on what my cadence should be...I need to read more on this. I've heard several different things from 10 sec positive ....not sure you can call it positive but the other part is called a negative...can't remember if there was another name for the first part...



    I really like Body by Science but can't remember what they specifically recommended or why...guess I could go reread that for help.



    Thanks for any and all advice as always look forward to it.



    I'm obviously not very good with doing new things....
     

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