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Biotoxin Illness Thread

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by Martin, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Dr Dave Ou, off Century Blvd near Chamblee. I like him. He rec'd turning off breakers and wifi about the same time I was learning about it out here.

  2. kjgraffin@yahoo.com

    kjgraffin@yahoo.com New Member

    I have also been diagnosed with Lyme and am in the Atlanta area. I have been going to Progressive Medical Center in Dunwoody for intravenous ozone and hydrogen peroxide treatments. My CD 57 increased from16 to 75 in a couple of months. I will be retesting next week.
  3. Martin

    Martin Gold

    I don't have Lyme, but it's still a biotoxin thing. I have mold issues according to my 23andme testing, but I still wonder. Wen we moved here, i was already going downhill even more than my "normal" crappy lifelong health. I researched, did some protocols, and after years of living right, had a six week run of glorious, energetic, pain-free existence before I came down with some bug and got hammered. REALLY sick for nearly a week. Never recovered fully. Something changed during that time I was so sick. Epigenetic smack down, methinks.

    embs, check out Dr Klinghardt's work for more Lyme info. Dr Ou studies under him often, and Klinghart is on the EMF thing as well. I stopped looking so much at biotoxin issues since reading Dr Kruse's work here. I've done a lot to remediate my home here and plan to stay, so moving is not on the radar.

    What a journey.
  4. Martin

    Martin Gold

    When I did my CD 57 twi years ago, it was in the 70's!
  5. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    we have a blog for this entire classes of diseases coming.......we just need to lay more foundation of how immunity is usurped to cause this issue........it is an EMF story.
  6. BJK77

    BJK77 Gold

    For those "seasoned" in biotoxin illnesses, any suggestions for a 10-year old girl recently diagnosed with Lyme disease?
  7. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    I would address her field first and foremost. I was infected in my teens, had issues here and there into my 20's but completely fell apart at 30 when I moved into an area of ridiculous exposure in 2004. We know from Dr K that the BBB becomes permeable in an altered field I believe that is when the s**t really hits the fan. Myself and all 3 of my children were treated extensively. I believe now that our treatment would have been quicker and easier had I known to address our field situation.

    Thorough labs are key....see where she is weak. See exactly what is lurking in her body. Borellia rarely exists alone and other pathogens require different meds to fight them.

    Support the gut like mad. meds will destroy everything in their path and in my experience the rebuilding can be as hard as the tearing down. A good doctor will know what supplements and diet advice to give a poorly informed doc will say just add a probiotic and all will be fine. Supporting the liver and methylation pathways is key. Limit her stress, pull from school if needed....schools are more than happy to assist a child in such a situation with home visits.

    Weaken the invader and strengthen the host....is a game of balance. Reduced field, grounding, epi paleo diet, supplements as needed per labs, sleep (a magnetico if possible), sunshine (so many I know in the Lyme communty feel better in summer...we know why), hydration.

    Kids are very resilient. That is a huge plus in her favor. Hope that helps.
  8. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Through what I've learned here at Optimal, I think you hit the nail just about right.

  9. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    Martin, maybe you can help me.....I've read all of your stuff, Dr. K's, and I am still confused about biotoxin illness.

    I understand the altered field to be the cause of the gene expression that allows for the destruction from the biotoxin. Makes perfect sense.

    Where I get confused is in the treatment. Lyme bacteria needs pharmaceutic eradication as does bartonella/malaria and the like correct? However mold would not? As is it is not a bacteria or blood borne pathogen?

    So course of treatment is dependent on what has been unleashed due to the altered field and decline? Or can the body regain control by negating field exposure and adjusting lifestyle?

    Dr K says in his lyme/leptin blog 3 weeks abx. But have you found all of these to be cured simply by adopting an optimal lifestyle? I am very curious as I am often confronted by people that want help in navigating lyme and I fear giving poor info. I only know what has worked for myself and my family....but just because it worked does not mean it was the best treatment. Remaining in such a bad field during treatment makes me feel like we got well by way of china instead of a more direct route!

    The areas that are now considered endemic fall directly in the highest population/most altered field areas. Makes sense now.

    uuughh!! this stuff makes my brain feel like it may explode! lol Thanks for your help :)
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    fighting any infection requires two things.......Abx vs the efficiency of the immune system........if the immune system is strong you wont need a lot of ABx or vice versa.
  11. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    So good field = short round abx and better success?

    poor field = long drawn out poor rate of success treatment?

    Abx are necessary in all cases though for borrelia, malaria et al? Body alone not able to fight once altered field has allowed genetic expression?
  12. Martin

    Martin Gold

    I'm figuring it all out as well, cantweight. Doc's synopsis is dead on.

    Various practitioners out there treating biotoxin illnesses are of different minds on how to get their patients some relief, and I believe they get varying results because of everyone's different life circumstances.

    Some Lyme/mold personal accounts I've read said two weeks on some ABX totally cured them, while others got worse. Frustrating, to say the least. We human's don't come off an assembly line, so when it comes to a remedy, Newtonian mechanics ain't so good sometimes.

    I've lived around mold all my life, especially while in my old-house restoration career, as well as living in the woods and traipsing around and collecting tick bites. But my labs don't show that I have Lyme, but rather a susceptibility to biotoxins and an inability to handle and clear the crap once it starts.

    Brought on by what? Altered signaling at a cellular level jamming up my FedEx warehouse.

    Big H
  13. Hope

    Hope Gold

    I love this sentence. It may be my favorite of the decade!! I also hope I can start living it soon...when we move to another house.
  14. Hope

    Hope Gold

    Martin, what genotype are you? I just found out mine is the dreaded one, UGH - on both levels..... Can't wait to talk to Dr Shoe. It totally makes sense. ANd I am totally hoping both the field I am in, which I will change, and have started to of course, and my thoughts, will make a difference......SO much to learn.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  15. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Hi Hope, sorry, I missed this post from you. I'm learning to subscribe to threads!

    I'm 1-5-52 - susceptible to mold exposure, and 13-6-52A - low aMSH.

    Supreme bummer on your dreaded hap. I wish I could change it for you. We have to stick to this site and navigate through, day by day.

  16. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Here's an interesting article I ran across while searching for the repair of hypothalamus receptors:


    Here are some excerpts with my thoughts and notes in bold:

    "If cytokines enter the capillaries, they will invite White Blood Cells into the area. As the capillaries are small blood vessels, they can only support so much traffic and the area will soon be clogged (and here come those horrible leg cramps when you stretch in the middle of the night). Cytokines regulate Hypoxia Inducible Factors (HIF) [20] which will result in constricted blood flow and a lack of oxygen to the cells, otherwise known as capillary hypoperfusion.* HIF stimulates TGFβ-1 (the test for this is what my mold doc uses to monitor progress while he treats biotin illness because over 90% of his patients test high), which furthers the inflammation cycle and alters the cell structure, and, Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF)."

    "By signaling the HIF, cytokines are preventing oxygen from getting to the cells. If the cells do not have enough oxygen then only 5% of their available energy, in the form of glycogen, can be used.* The rest of the glycogen gets burned up in the form of lactic acid, hence the muscle cramps[23]."

    "The body can overcome these limitations by burning fat for energy, however once the fat source runs out, and the people with the 6 haplotypes do have some genetic predispositions to be limber (many of these individuals according to Dr. Shoemaker have hyper mobile joints[24]) and athletic, then the body will find another fuel source to burn. Since these individuals may not have a lot of stored fat to begin with, or simply run out of fat to burn, the body will start to burn the protein of the lean muscle mass. Leptin is released after the fat stores are depleted (I believe this should read, "while the fat stores…) and the body is signaled to start holding on to fatty acids. Once the body starts to cannibalize itself and eat the lean muscle, it figures, for the time being, it will pay the price because the problem will resolve and then the normal stores of energy will be replenished.

    This restoration never occurs in a CIRS individual, because the original problem of the foreign antigens was not resolved which means all the other processes are still in play. It takes a minimum of two days of rest for the body to rebuild its glycogen stores[25] and most people with CFS, as soon as they get energy, burn it and do not pace themselves (hello?! Martin, are you effing listening?!). At the same time the body is gaining more fatty acids which become fat weight, and the Leptin release signal never shuts off[26]."

    "Moving on, this release of Leptin will act on the hypothalamus[27]. According to Shoemaker, the increase of cytokines will eventually damage the Leptin receptors on the hypothalamus, which will inhibit the binding ability of Leptin. Dr. Shoemaker amended this statement in IAQ radio episode 136 to state that the receptors for Leptin are not the only receptors which are damaged by this process.* Since this binding does not take place, the hypothalamus does not produce enough MSH to regulate the inflammatory agents present in the body. Even if Shoemaker is incorrect on this statement in regards to the cytokine effect on Leptin receptors, which I suspect he is not, the demand from Leptin for more MSH would eventually lead to reduced MSH if the antigens were not removed, simply because the MSH would be tapped out." (time to CT!)

    "From my own clinical experience and what I have seen and heard working with Dr. Rea, I believe that Dr. Shoemaker has potentially come across an important piece of the puzzle. While I am not sold on all that he says about Leptin, particularly trying to link it to obesity in CFS or EI/CS patients (as most of the ones I have seen have been, if anything, underweight) (Author is not aware of Leptin Resistance in thin people - think Body Composition!) I do believe that he makes a good case for himself. The lack of oxygen to the cells would cause the symptoms described and supports Dr. Rea’s use of oxygen therapy, and potentially supports the use of Tai Chi, and Qigong breathing exercises among other disciplines. Leptin, while it may not result in weight gain in the patients described, may be the key to a number of other symptoms and the reason why some of Dr. Rea’s overweight patients, and others, have a hard time loosing weight. Obesity is such a multifaceted issue that assuming there is a singular answer is, at this point, suspect at best (Now we're talking). It is also possible that his more recent discovery of more receptors being damaged could be the cause of some of the symptoms."

    So, can the receptors be repaired? Does the Leptin Reset accomplish this damage that are due to cytokines?

    From the good Doc,:
    "@Dan At this point my speculation is that we can retrain the hypothalamus. I feel I have done this to myself and many of my current patients but no one else is doing this. I have contacted Amgen about this angle and their synthetic leptin trial data but my dealings with them lead me to believe they have other plans for their synthetic leptin. I have spoken to several people in SD who were in their trial and they all had their synthetic leptin discontinued and they opted for belt lipectomies and liposuction to reduce their adipocyte numbers to control their weight. Most plastic surgeons wont do the surgery for this indication because they dont believe it is a weight loss strategy, but most plastic surgeons also think the number of fat cells we have is fixed at birth which is also old school CW. This is a research topic that probably will never get studied until synthetic leptin is FDA approved which I dont see happening anytime soon."

    "When someone is not responsive to the receptor signaling of leptin in the hypothalamus, they become unable to burn their excess energy off as pure heat so they remain overweight. The reason is simple. They do not have any excess energy to burn as you will find out. They find it very difficult to lose the weight, even when they restrict calories to starvation levels. This will change when they become leptin sensitive once again. Some obese people appear to do tremendous damage to their leptin receptors and need synthetic leptin to continue to lose or maintain their weight loss. We realized this in the results of Amgen leptin trials data. Moreover, some of these people have found that removing adipocytes surgically also helps them maintain their weight better as well. Long term studies need to be done on these people to see if surgical removal of fat is really necessary for long term weight control, or can long term neuroplastic training be done while the hypothalamus undergoes neuroplastic repair over time. In my opinion, I think if we use timing of meals and couple it to the day light cycles as they adjust daily, we can facilitate that neuroplasticity. This is really the science behind the Leptin Rx. I have read extensively about the work of neurosurgeon and neuroscientists Penfield, Paul Bach y Rita, and Merzenich and their experiments have proved that the brain is very plastic, and can be retaught how to work optimally again if we give it a “new way†to perceive a stimulus once damage to another part of the brain has occurred.

    "We can achieve leptin sensitivity after the hypothalamus is damaged, if we teach the brain how to use our older evolutionary non-leptin neural circuits. Yoking eating to light and day, and making timing to sleep and wakefulness and to the visceral sensations of distention of the gut via the vagus nerve are precisely how the Leptin Rx is designed to work. Taking full advantage of how certain macro-nutirents are tied to light cycle further helps reset hypothalamus in two to three months. The more inflammation that is present, the longer the reset may take. Instead of relying on optimal functioning of the hypothalamic leptin receptor, we can re-teach the hypothalamus to pay attention to the light levels, awakening time, time we sleep and face dark, when our gut is distended and filled with food and when it is not. We can also load the diet with protein and fat at certain times, to take full advantage of the existing working neural circuits in the brainstem and hypothalamus that accounts for carbohydrates, to our advantage in resetting how the brain can more fully perceive our energy status when the leptin receptor is not functioning."

    Hell, yeah.

  17. Martin

    Martin Gold

  18. persistence

    persistence New Member

    Martin, I understand the basic idea of haplotypes, and I understand how you converted her genetic test to 4-3-53 haplotype. But I don't understand what is the second haplotype 15-6-51? Why are there two of them, and how did you calculate the second one? Where is the documentation that shows what this second one means?
  19. persistence

    persistence New Member

    Is this the Lyme blog you are referring to?
  20. persistence

    persistence New Member

    Drywall is actually an even better medium for mold growth than wood.

    I guess if you want to minimize potential for molds, you would need to use aluminum structures for support and some kind of plastic for the sidewall. I'm not sure anyone even makes such construction materials, and what would it look like aesthetically?

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