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Biotoxin Illness Thread

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by Martin, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Martin,

    The numbers seem to go hand and hand with the amount of mold that I have been exposed to. For the past 2 ½ weeks I have been working about 15 hours a day at the building. A lot of that work was removing the last of the walls and sheetrock.

    As far as a doctor goes I just have my primary care physician. She told me that she doesn’t know what test to run or who to refer me to. I live in Burlington, NC it’s about midway between Greensboro and Durham. If you know or could find me a Doctor I would be grateful. It would save me lots of time. I wouldn’t have to research all this stuff for the doctor.

    My Dr. said she would run some test but didn’t really listen to what test I asked her to do. She ordered what she wanted to do. This is what she ordered.

    #322000 Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (which I told her was unnecessary), #028142 Complete Blood Count (CBC) Without Differential, #001149 Thyroxine (T4), #002188 Triiodothyronine (T3), #004259 TSH 3rd generation and #006684 Thyroid antibodies.

    I don’t have the codes for the next two, the doctor didn't have the codes written on the order sheet. Lyme disease and HLA DR.

    They also did code #008482 Fungus (Mycology) Culture which was supposed to be a urine specimen, but that code told them to do a blood draw. I had already given them a urine sample so they sent both to be tested but didn’t have the correct codes at that time so who knows what was ordered. They spent an hour trying to figure it out.I haven’t received the test results yet but will update you when they come back.
  2. Martin

    Martin Gold

    HLA DRB DRBQ test from Labcorp # 012542 is the one you want. There are many HLA tests and don't make the mistake that I made and order just the HLA DR test! It is NOT the one you need! I wasted $260 of self-payin' cash on that error!

    You can get decent info about other aspects of your health picture by those other tests your doc ordered. Search around this site and pick up info on how to interpret the results. Many may be normal but you still feel lousy. Common with biotoxin illness folks. What is goofing up with us is shown by very specific tests that Dr Shoemaker has researched.

    The HLA DRB DRBQ test also shows if you are genetically susceptible to Lyme. I'm not sure what Lyme test your doc ordered, but often they are inconclusive, and worse - misleading.

    Keep on it, and be your own advocate. Keep us posted.
  3. I have my labs in hand and I have no idea what they mean. I'm hoping you might know what they mean since when my Dr. ordered the labs she said she may not know how to read them and I have an appointment with her tomorrow. I was hoping to post the results sooner but they came back yesterday. Everything came up normal on my Comprehensive Metabolic Panel except BUN/Creatinine Ratio which was 21 the range is 8-20. On my HLA DRB test #012542, which is what I don't know how to translate. I tried looking it up but I'm having issues with being able to comprehend things right now.

    DRB1 DRB1*04:04

    DRB1 DRB1*15:JUFU Code translation: JUFU 01/32/36/37/41/42/43/51/52


    HLA DQ DQB1*06:KBET Code translation: JZMF 02/07/08/14/18/32 KBET 06:02/06:11/06:16/06:19/06:26N/06:33/06:37/06:40

    DRB3 DRB3*-

    DRB3 DRB3*-

    DRB4 DRB4*01:FVUU

    DRB4 DRB4*- Code translation: FVUU 01:01/01:02/01:03/01:03N/01:04/01:05/01:06/01:07/01:08/02:01N/03:01N

    DRB5 DRB5*01:01

    DRB5 DRB5*-

    Everything was normal on my CBC, Platelet, thyroid antibodies, TSH, T4, T3, Test#160333 for Lyme, IgM, early test/reflex was negative. I'm still waiting on the Fungus (Mycology) culture test #008482. Here is Labcorp's description: Culture for fungi. Isolation and identification (additional charges/CPT code may apply) if culture results warrant. CPT coding for microbiology and virology procedures often cannot be determined before the culture is performed. My report says drawing fee so they must have found something.

    Did you happen to find or know of a Dr in my area? Also, based upon my results if you know what they mean what would you recommend for my next course of action?

    Thank you so much for your help.

  4. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Okay, I'm on it. Give me a few to translate the numbers.

    As near as I can figure them, you have these two:

    4-3-53 Multisusceptible (Shoemaker refers to this one as "dreaded")

    15-6-51 Borrelia, Post-Lyme Syndrome

    Both suck, I'm afraid. But it's not the worst of the worst - 11-3-52B

    I know this blows, but take solace in knowing where you are, and, how you got there. There is a way out and many have gotten relief. It takes time and money. First thing to do is start looking for a clean place to live. If you think your place is okay, get it tested by Mycometrics, Shoemaker's preferred testing lab. Don't guess. It will only frustrate you.

    Find a doc that will prescribe cholestyramine. Read "Surviving Mold", Shoemakers lengthy tome on various patients who moved beyond this crap. Loads of good info in there. Read some, take a breather and absorb. Read more. Go to Surviving Mold http://www.survivingmold.com/ website and read.

    You will prevail.

    Stick to it. It is the pathway out shown to us by Dr. Jack Kruse, on of the finest docs I've ever come across. I would still be struggling hopelessly had I not seen his blog on Lyme.

    Perish that thought.
  5. Martin

    Martin Gold

    I've sent my doc another request for referral for your area.
  6. We just moved into a new place, it hasn't been tested and I haven't noticed anything. I've always had a heightened sense of smell. More often then not I know as soon as I walk into someplace. My friend Laurie thinks I'm strange because we use to go for walks around dinner time and I would tell her what people where having for dinner. OK, I guess that is a little strange.

    I know 100% it's from the building we are renovating. We've gutted everything except the stairs and exterior brick walls, which use to be covered with plaster.There is only one place that still needs to be cleaned and that is surrounded with plastic . Once that has been cleaned I will start the process of cleaning off everything that is in the building. Eventually we will live there and open up our business, so I am taking every precaution. This will be the one time I don't have to control my OCD. All the cleaning so far has been total over kill and I hope it does the trick. So far so good. It's made difference in how I feel when I am there. I'm going to cross my fingers, test the building and hope it comes out negative. If not I will hire a professional.

    Thank you so very much for all your help. I finally feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Once again thank you and I hope that you get well soon.
  7. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Thanks, glad to contribute here in the best way I can.

    Cleaning can be the toughest part of this whole deal. I just got this from my mold doc: (emphasis mine)

    From one doc to mine:

    "I have a patient who did ERMI testing on her office which was positive. Her

    > landlords consultants insist that air sampling is the "gold standard" and

    > plans to test with that. The landlord was surprised that she could have a

    > genetic uniqueness to mold. She was a 4,3,53 & 15,6, 51. Anyone have

    > references to the superiority of ERMI to air sampling, and the percentages

    > of the HLA's."

    My doc's reply:

    "I have faced a similar situation with my patients and it's difficult to overcome.

    The main argument is that for every spore there are about 320 spore fragments. 80% of the inflammagen load of mold are located in the fragments
    . Fragments can not be seen by light microscopy which is how air testing works. The ERMI is the only test which can detect these fragments.

    Another study showed that one needs to run 3-9 air tests per room to truly rule out mold amplification.

    Another study did split sample air testing. The air traps were sent to 9 different labs and they got 9 different results.

    The best article may be the 4th one located https://www.survivingmold.com/diagnosis/ermi-testing/articles

    An article by Greg Weatherman can be found at https://www.survivingmold.com/legal-resources/environmental/whats-missing

    Starting on page 21 of the Policyholders of America consensus statement, Dr. Jack Thrasher talks about the different methodologies at https://www.survivingmold.com/legal-resources/publications

    My notes from one of Shoemaker's DVDs says that 4-3-53 makes up 1% of the population. The relative risk of a mold illness with 4-3-53 is 4 times higher than a non-susceptible haplotype. The relative risk data can be found at https://www.survivingmold.com/legal-resources/library Go to the 5th file, slide 41."

  8. There's a free 2-day live streaming video by ILADS.org. Dr Neil Nathan is presenting Shoemaker 101 right now.

    www.ilads.org   click on blue bar that says "Watch ILADs streaming"
  9. Martin

    Martin Gold

    My mold doc, Dr Dave Ou, posted this on his blog:

    The genetics of Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome from biotoxins

    In the vast majority of my patients, I check a genetic test called an HLA DR/DQ from Labcorp (test #012542) I learned about this test from Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker. This gene is located on chromosome number 6 and it encodes a protein called an MHC Class II protein. Each person has two copies: one from the father and one from the mother. This test tells me if a person is susceptible to biotoxin illnesses and I’ve found that 98% of my patients are.

    To give some background on this gene, when the immune system first encounters a foreign object such as a bacteria, the first immune cells to arrive on the scene are called APCs (Antigen Presenting Cells). The APC “eats” the foreign object then attaches it to a MHC Class II protein. It’s like taking a piece of the bacteria and and putting it in a picture frame. The APC then moves the foreign object and the MHC protein (the picture frame) to the surface of the cell so that the rest of the immune system (specifically T- cells) can study and learn how to defend against the foreign object. The APC essentially tells the rest of the immune system, “Look what I found! I put it in a picture frame!”

    As an analogy, imagine that a crime was committed. The first police officer on the scene was able to take a picture of the criminal before he ran away. The policeman then shows a picture of the suspect to the rest of the police force. The MHC II protein does the same thing as the first police officer: to show a picture of the suspect to the rest of the immune system.

    What if the police officer’s camera didn’t work well or he had trouble developing the picture? He wouldn’t be able to show the picture to the rest of the police department so they wouldn’t know who to look for. The criminal is able to run around the city to commit more crimes. This is what happens in Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome. The MHC II protein is unable to show a picture of the foreign invader to the rest of the immune system.

    Ritchie Shoemaker, MD, has identified 10 types of MHC II proteins that are unable to show small biotoxins to the rest of the immune system. Biotoxins are poisons released by a variety of organisms. Examples include snake venom, bee venom, and jellyfish stingers. Bacteria and mold also make biotoxins. Some of the smallest biotoxins are those made from indoor mold and Lyme Disease. If one of these 10 types of MHC II proteins run into the small biotoxins from indoor mold or Lyme, they can’t “see” the biotoxins so the biotoxins are able to run around the body causing damage. There are about 50 other types of MHC II proteins that are able to recognize the small biotoxins from mold or Lyme so people with these don’t get biotoxin illneses very easily.

    A list of the MHC II proteins / HLA DR/DQ that can’t recognize mold or Lyme biotoxins can be found at https://www.survivingmold.com/diagnosis/lab-tests. A more complete list can be found in his book Surviving Mold

    4-3-53: susceptible to both biotoxins from mold and Lyme

    11/12-3-52B: susceptible to both biotoxins from mold and Lyme

    14-5-52B: susceptible to both biotoxins from mold and Lyme

    7-2-53: susceptible to biotoxins from mold

    13-6-52A, B, or C: susceptible to biotoxins from mold

    17-2-52A: susceptible to biotoxins from mold

    18-4-52A: susceptible to biotoxins from mold

    15-6-51: susceptible to biotoxins from Lyme

    16-5-51: susceptible to biotoxins from Lyme

    1-5: susceptible to low MSH which makes one susceptible to biotoxins from mold and Lyme

    About 25% of the world’s population have one of the 10 susceptible types of HLA DR/DQ gene. As of Nov 27, 2012 in my practice, I have tested 227 patients. Out of those 227 patients, 222 have one of the 10 types. That’s an astounding 98% of all of my patients who are vulnerable to the biotoxins from indoor mold and Lyme! Another way of putting it is nearly all of my patients come from only 25% of the population. I have spoken to my colleagues across the country and they’ve had very similar findings to mine. I sometimes joke that the HLA DR/DQ gene predicts if someone will get frustrated with conventional medicine and seek out alternative care.

    I’ve written about some of the symptoms and diseases that are associated with these genes in my previous post. Unfortunately, there are only several hundred doctors in the world who are aware of this gene. Therefore, the vast majority of doctors know nothing about this gene so that countless patients are not diagnosed properly. I suspect there has been an increase in the number of doctors who are aware of this gene as a result of a talk given at this year’s ILADS conference and hopefully this important knowledge will continue to grow.
  10. fitness@home

    fitness@home Silver

    "I sometimes joke that the HLA DR/DQ gene predicts if someone will get frustrated with conventional medicine and seek out alternative care."

    Yes, that would be us :rolleyes:

    Thank you for reviving this thread Martin. I will read the entire thread later today.

    I recently asked Sterling to reveiw my 23andme raw data again, so I could get it in the newer report format (my report is 13 pages). My original review was done in December 2012, before they implemented it. The report covers a lot of data and does show some mutations on various HLA genes.
  11. Martin

    Martin Gold

    From my mold doc in Atlanta posted on his Facebook page...


    In this video, Dr. Klinghardt discusses an experiment by Swiss researcher on the effects of electromagnetic fields (EMFs) such as those from cell phones and cordless phone on mycotoxins. He found that mold exposed to EMFs produce over 600 times more mycotoxins than without EMFs. Not only that, the mycotoxins were even more potent. Some have speculated this is partly why mold illness is more problematic now than in the past.

    And another...

    Another example of normal labs being worse than abnormal labs is urine mycotoxin testing. It has been reported when measuring the levels in a family living in a moldy house, it is often the family member with no mycotoxins in his/her urine who has the worst symptoms. In this case, the "normal" results are because that person's body does not eliminate the toxins so that they build up to high levels internally. With effective treatment, the urine mycotoxins will go from normal to abnormal as the mycotoxins start to exit the body.
  12. freesia

    freesia Old Member

    Very interesting! Thanks for the share.

    You still CTing Martin?
    ...In theory, the resulting increase in catalase, SOD and glutathione peroxidase should help escort mycotoxins out safely.
  13. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Hi freesia, very interesting info of yours. Do you have any more epi-paleo mycotoxin tidbits?

    Doc Ou is one dedicated, helpful doc. Studies with Klinghardt often.
  14. freesia

    freesia Old Member

    I read anything increasing that trio of antioxidant enzymes should help - I think particularly at the liver level. Curcumin raises those same enzymes providing an hepatoprotective benefit. I guess that counts as another tidbit. :)

    Re minimizing exposure in the first place I've been using paramagnetic microrganisms* to keep molds under control in my home and garden - with an added benefit of a significantly better fruit tree yield, especially in higher pectin containing fruits. (I'm sure there's important information in the result of that experiment!)

    *Klinghardt has, or used to have, a product containing these organisms - b. subtilis and I think some phototropic bacteria too. He advises spraying them around the sleeping area but I culture my own and use them on every surface. I guess this doesn't solve the problem of water damaged wood below the surface.
    My house is built from native (Kauri) wood. I don't know what your experience of this is but it seems to me the wood doesn't support mold growth the way newer places do??

    Dave Ou's posts keep coming up via others in my facebook feed. I think I'll go like his page.
  15. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Thanks for the info! I've been getting my sulfur levels down by restricting certain foods and now that it is, I'm doing curcumin again. That spice is amazing.

    I have a small orchard and your experience is intriguing. I'll have to look that up.

    Culturing your own?! How cool is that?!

    My home had rough pine boards on the interior walls and poor construction let in water vapor and grew mold on the back sides. NO water intrusion! Just a lot of wood surfaces. Replaced with drywall and rebuilt insulation, vapor barrier, and sealing cracks.

    Dave is on it in many ways. Tireless worker with this biotoxin thing. He has some of the lousy genes Shoemaker has mapped for mold, so he gets it.
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    the genes are not the problem.......when they are activated by the field your in.......is the biggest issue.
  17. Martin

    Martin Gold

    I see that more and more each day. I'm doing what I can to limit bad fields and lousy light and I dig it! Finally a strategy that gets down to the basics of what's going on with this planet.

    Still, when I'm so damn tired and aching, I try to get relief any way I can, and that includes reducing exposure to mold. I've begun to see that if I can get my body more and more balanced, I won't have to worry about "mold", tick bites, chemicals, etc. so much. I take precautions when I do any of my work that involves chemical or biotoxin exposure - hepa filters, masks, huge vent fans, or switch to less troublesome products. Bet hedging whenever I can! But I will always come back to the "cellular terroir" for guidance on what to do that will get me balanced again. It trumps it all.

    Even though I've had some good results on the Mito RX, I know that the Field is paramount. I don't want to guzzle 5-carbon "franken water" et. al. to feel good, but I will until I can sort out this house and it's fields. I may have to move. Don't want to, but I will.

    Thanks, Doc, for being a "Rosetta Stone" and sharing it with others.

    I while back, I asked Dr. Ou about EMF vs mold exposure and which one "came first", so to speak, and he said, "Good question!" so I think he is open to finding out some of your viewpoints. I also brought up CT and a-MSH and he seemed interested. PM me, if you like, on an idea I have.

  18. ColdKnight

    ColdKnight New Member

    Martin, you say you are avoiding sulfur foods. Are they only bad for your condition? Are you limiting eggs, onions, cabbage, and the like?
  19. Martin

    Martin Gold

    I have done the 23andme genome test and got the idea from researching my particular single nucleotoid(?) polymorphisms otherwise known as "SNP's" or "snips". I have a theory that one can reprogram one's genome back in balance so these foods won't have the lousy effects, kinda like becoming okay around biotoxins as well.

    Sulfuous veggies comprised 90% of my veggie diet, so I decided to back off. I started avoiding high sulfur foods (thiols?) after checking my urine sulfate with test strips, and when I got them lowered, I gradually brought back in eggs, some onions, and maybe garlic. Sulfur is crucial! You can go too low.

    I detoxed weirdly coming off those foods! Look what it did to my head!
  20. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Yes, it does appear that you have successfully reprogrammed yourself, BGH.

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