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BHRT experiences- pls share!

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by tweety, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. tweety

    tweety New Member

    So i have been on progesterone for nine months, from 15-30mg topical cream applications daily from day 15 to beginning of cycle. I also started keto DHEA a couple of months ago, and compounded T3 one month ago.



    At my most recent testing, both saliva and blood levels show no increase in levels. In fact my progesterone and DHEA have dropped even lower. I asked a question to Dr. K, and he said now is the time for BHRT. But... I am on it and its not going anywhere. My cortisol is still low, so its not being shunted to cortisol either.



    In addition to this, I am continuing to gain 1-2lbs each month with the progesterone application. The weight does not come off once I stop. It only increases when I start applying the cream again. My hormone doc is pulling the progesterone for now, and focusing on thyroid and adrenals. We also switched from straight T3 to dessicated thyroid.



    Has anyone else experienced this?

    Does anyone have research or ideas to help me think through this?
     

  2. I have nothing useful - I just wanted to share your misery, in case it loves company. It can be so defeating to work so hard at something and have "worse" results. You can figure this out. I spent some time answering your "ask jack" question before I realized it was an "ask jack". My advice was to ask Jack again as his answer was confusing. His answers are not always clear! Half the time I'm more confused after he answers - hehe perhaps it's his way of making us sign up for a consult faster! Pavlovian type training and all.
     
  3. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    tweety



    where are you applying the creams???



    I changed location - on a recommendation from Colleen to the inner arm btwn elbow and armpit - and I'm begging to see a difference - we'll see where things stand when we re-test in September...



    thre have been ppl who've noticed that w/not enough Pg - they gain weight. maybe you are one of those ppl who need oral BHRT Pg like prometrium (Jack thinks that's my case - and my PCP is leaning that way as well - especially if my Pg:E2 ratio doesn't come up this next round of testing)

    not everyone absorbes the creams well...

    as for the DHEA - are you taking it sublingulally? I break open my LEF DHEA and swish it around w/some water in my mouth until it disolves.



    What brand of DHEA are you using? it could be what your taking your body isn't registering.



    I was taking 100mg 7Keto Dhea and 100mg DHEA & 200mg of Pregnenolone - that cranked everything up - so my DHEA and Pregnenolone are now off the charts - and I've backed down to 15mg DHEA, 25mg 7Keto Dhea, and 25mg of Pregnenolone.



    Also - you may want to consider trying a diffrent compounding pharmacy.



    additionally you've got to fix the low cortisol, before anything else is going to really start taking notice. you might want to check out the thread on Why Factor X is actionable http://forum.jackkruse.com/showthread.php?2194-So-you-want-to-know-why-FACTOR-X-matters-NOW - Jack talks about cycloset - there....it might be something you want to look into, and talk w/your doc about....
     
  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    or maybe your doctor is not aggressive enough with dosing........(my bet)
     
  5. colleencoble

    colleencoble New Member

    I was about to say the same thing, Doc. WAY too low progesterone. Good grief, I take 150 mg a day of progesterone. Now you likely don't need as much as I do, but obviously you're not getting enough. I'd also bet you need pregnenolone.
     
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I knew you'd be blowin the same horn.....CC LOL
     
  7. txritchies@att.net

    txritchies@att.net New Member

    Can I share in the misery also? I have been taking 200mg progesterone(RDT) and as Colleen put it one time in regard to my numbers..."it's in the toilet". I just went to a new BHRT doc and should have info back on labs this week. I know you are ready for some progress and so am I :)
     
  8. Joann

    Joann New Member

    Tweety, I can only relate my experience with BHRT.....I am coming from a different place since I didn't use hormones until after meno.....I have never had a rise in serum E, P, from using the creams or gels. Neither did a df (she uses P twice a day at 100mg dose) and no change or doesn't feel any different. otoh, I feel everything ...P goes to something, makes me feel nuts.

    What about Testosterone?



    When I first tried E, biest, I felt sad, foggy, not what I expected. my df felt nothing. I tweaked dose up and down, stopped. Then I asked for a stronger E, just estradiol, and had opposite response (stimulated, heart palps) Then went back to biest and low and behold ...my response was totally different. woke up the receptors? Last year I stopped using the biest for a months...started aging weight....2 lbs a week. went back on E and did not lose it. so I would say it definitely can wreak havoc on weight . when I first used E I lost 6 lbs without trying. since you are still cycling, means your hormones change throughout the month...I would think whatever hormones is in need of tweaking should be cycled if any.

    I went to one of the "famous" docs, he gave me his Biest, I told him I couldn't handle the high dose, but I had to try his protocol. I was hot flashing, no sleep. He told me to put the cream on the soles of my feet. Major hot flashes, no sleep, worse than meno. He put me in his book of unusual responses and told my dh that his wife (me) had a unique body! LOL

    Joann
     
  9. Glamazon

    Glamazon Gold

    I am taking 700mg of DHEA daily. I started at 200mg. No adverse side affects but plenty of positive ones. Body recomp is going well although weight loss is low in comparison. I will keep adding 100mg a week until adverse side affects begins to show. I am dosing myself based on educational consult until I find a good BHRT doc. I found research that 2000mg have been shown to not exhibit adverse side effects. We are all individual. My baseline salivary hormone panel was nada...zombie zone...from zrtlabs. It was worse than someone who was 20 years older than myself and I am in my 50s.
     
  10. tweety

    tweety New Member

    Wow! Thanks for all the great responses.



    I thought my p was too low a dose, so I went to 30mg daily. I noticed an improvement in mood, but gained more weight. I suppose I could consider 45mg next month. And 60mg if necessary too.



    Thing is, my E came down, so my ratio of P/E is now within range- 117. (range 45-455).



    I am taking 50mg DHEA for the last week. At first I noticed great energy. Then nothing. Back to naps. And lately I have felt irritable, so I am backing off a bit. I will try sublingual next dose though.



    I am removing keto DHEA for now. My drs next step will be to consider estrogen. I am hoping if I take the P out for a few months I can lose some of this weight, then I will experiment with it at a higher dose.



    As far as thyroid, she's got me starting on 1 grain of compounded desiccated thyroid. She told me to give it 3 mos. I am going to give it a week, then I want to increase it to 2 grains. I have done some reading on that. Everything I read says staying at a low starting dose too long leads to more aggressive hypothyroid issues.
     
  11. tweety

    tweety New Member

    Oh yeah- I have been applying the cream to my inner arms all along.



    I don't seem to metabolize things well, so it seems odd to think I may do better on progesterone pills more than topical cream, but it's a consideration.
     
  12. tweety

    tweety New Member

    Colleen- you take 150mg oral or topical progesterone?



    I was told 30 is max for topical, but oral doses are around 100-200 bcs you absorb less.



    And I just started on 50mg pregnenolone yesterday. I'll be watching to see what effect it has. I want to change my

    Protocol, but I don't want to change so much that I don't know what is doing what!
     
  13. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    FWIW Tweety while your Pg:E2 maybe in range its still in the bottom quartile - Jack want's to see women in the top Quartile - so you're going to want to be closer to 400 vs 100...
     
  14. Joann

    Joann New Member

    The P cream usually has a percentage...like 5 % = 50 mg/gm so if you are using 3 % and using 1/4 tsp which is a gm then it should be 30 mg. a script can be made to whatever you want. otc I think is at most 3%
     
  15. Tweety, going from 1 grain thyroid med to 2 grains is a big jump all in one shot. I raised mine 1/2 grain each time (every 10 days to 2 weeks) until symptoms were gone. I'm worried that you may go hyper and you don't want that. Raising slowly, albeit not too slowly, you need to let your body adjust as you raise. Can you link me to the place that talks about raising a grain at a time is OK. Also, you may want to multi dose. One dose in the morning and one in the afternoon. It's easier on your body that way. :)



    From Stopthethyroidmadness.com

    GOING UP WITH DOSAGES WAY TOO FAST. This was observed a few years ago: a doctor put his patient on desiccated thyroid. One grain, then 2 grains, 3 grains, 4 grains, 5 grains, then 6 grains. But the problem was that he did this within 4-5 weeks! OUCH. He started to find himself majorly overdosed with symptoms to match (high heart rate, sweating). He had to stop for a few weeks… then resume again at one grain and do it the right way–approx. 1/2 grain raise every two weeks, slowing down in the 2-3 grain area (and for some, slowing down on even lower amounts).
     
  16. Glamazon

    Glamazon Gold


    Regarding the DHEA response. My same experience at 200mg. Dr. K has said (paraphrasing) at first it is felt as it enters the system then sinks down to where it is needed most.



    You gotta top of the tank.You are probably no where close to filling the tank. You just keep putting in squirts. That's is why I am keeping on adding until I have adverse symptoms.Then I will back off some. Having repeat labs done in September so that will be a good pic of where I am since I started supplementing the first of last month.



    700 mg for me has been a watershed dose. At this dose my cravings have gone way down and my appetite has disappeared. My body comp is changing, my legs are leaning out and getting defined (and I am pretty heavy). I sleep better and deeper. I had no idea that hormone supplementation could do that.



    I am post menopausal so your mileage may vary.
     
  17. tweety

    tweety New Member

    Thanks for the DHEA info. Did you experience irritability and it went away? Or are you referring to the energy followed by no energy?
     
  18. tweety

    tweety New Member


    Thanks- I read all of that again today. Sorry- I will clarify. I just meant increasing my dose, but not necessarily in one dose. Though, now that I think of it... My Rx is compounded and I can't really break it in to half. Will have to figure that one out. I just meant that I am concerned if I am on too low a dose for too long that's not good either.
     
  19. OK good. I was a bit worried. But you can definitely go up a 1/2 grain after a week or so. You are right on the low dose. Take it slow but not too slow and adjust as needed. You will feel better each time you increase and then again feel like you are going back hypo and that is when you increase. It sounds like you know what to do! :)
     
  20. tweety

    tweety New Member

    thanks - any idea how to do a 1/2 grain when its capsule form?
     

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