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Betaine HCL massive doses

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by seanb4, May 24, 2016.

  1. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    Thinking of starting betaine hcl again and upping dosage significantly.

    Last time I tried I got to 20caps of 650mg and started to flush, at the time I thought it was an allergic reaction but since have realized it is to do with methylation. So now I will start again as I have noticed the large doses do reduce my stomach heaviness somewhat.

    Anyway I read somewhere but I cant remember or find where that some people needed 50-70 capsules per meal, maybe @Josh (Paleo Osteo) or @Josh.

    Did I remember this right? Is there any danger to this level? How would you stop the betaine induced flushing?
  2. ferber recommends large doses for some people because it is required for some immune and inflammatory cells production (i think it was neutrophils or the like)
    it appears to be quite good in these huge doses for systemic infection with pathogens such as the lyme associated bacteria, my wife could not handle it however in much over 4caps at a time
    Christina Gagnon and seanb4 like this.
  3. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    Interesting thanks, still confused as to the ph it will make your stomach. It seems that you need to make the concentration above 4 to swallow without burning however your stomach should be ph less than 3 when eating. So it would dilute it further, unless the ph isnt important, just the sheer amount of HCL...

    I took 30 Betaine hcl yesterday spread over 2hrs after breakfast, no real heaviness but extreme tiredness and headache. Felt bad. Maybe this was to many methyl donors which I am bad at handling (23andme) or too much acid. I also had some reflux in the night which hasnt happened in ages.

    Read in a study that 3 capsules reduce stomach PH by 4.5 on average for 70mins. So the massive doses shouldnt really be reducing the ph much more than 3 caps. Maybe take 3 every 70mins...
  4. it is likely due to vagal tone in general. my wife had better success after i treated the thoracic and cervical spine dysfunction
    seanb4 likes this.
  5. endless

    endless New Member

    I did high dose HCL with Josh F. He did stress that it should NOT be HCL with betaine, just straight HCL. I tolerated it well.
    seanb4 likes this.
  6. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    ahhh, that makes sense. Did you buy hydrochloric acid and dilute it or did you find it in capsule form?
  7. endless

    endless New Member

    I found it in capsules, but it was not easy to find! Almost all of them have betaine.
  8. Rubicon

    Rubicon Avoiding Equilibrium

    I had a similar experience, but the HCL Josh advised me to get was Premier Betaine HCL. I'm finishing up a 30-day program of 14 caps per meal, 3 times a day.

    I had difficulty ordering the Premier HCL in Canada so I proposed getting Bulk Supplements HCL or other common HCL supplements. However, Josh advised to avoid anhydrous HCL or any that contain pepsin, fenugreek, etc. In the end I was able to get a big order of the Premier stuff.
    seanb4 likes this.
  9. endless

    endless New Member

    I didn't get the Premier Research because shipping cost was prohibitive. I finally found one brand with no fenugreek or pepsin, etc. Can't remember the brand name now....
  10. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray New Member

    Nine years ago the HCl and HCL Activator from Premier Research Labs https://prlabs.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=HCL gave me an ulcer that took me years Dx and heal. Premier Research Labs Rep was sure I need it because I was 'Aging' and they said everyone 'older' needs to supplement with HCL.
    As I understand stomach acid either too low and too high produce the same symptoms. I't's been 9 years and I never returned to study HCL until now and came here to see what Dr.Jack Kruse thinks of HCL and if an when it might be needed. I was thinking if your body produces it we should not supplement with it...
    According to two GI Effects test over the past 7 years I do not digest fats well but I've very rarely have acid reflux but did suspect silent acid reflux once. But think it turned out to be due to high histamine, high lectin, high oxalate foods I was eating during season allergy months. When I lowered those foods during those seasons symptoms of serve sore throats went away. I rarely have any digestive upset perhaps because I have practiced natural hygiene eating since the early 70's. I felt better not eating starches and meats together and eating fruit alone so except for some SAD eating years I've mostly eaten that food combining way. greens and veggies with meats or vegetables with starches avoiding starches with meats and not eating fruits after a meal.

    Anyway, for the fat absorption I've sometimes used ox bile 125 mg and 500 mg doses but metabolic counselor Michael McEvoy warned me not to take ox bile ongoing as it can cause the body to become dependent. With heavier meals especially with red meats I now take 1 tiny Himalayan pink salt pebble or eat a bit of watercress or arugula as bitters to help produce my own HCL. Remember I've had a Foodie nutrient perspective focus for my entire life. Anyway, I ran across a fellow who had articles I liked that were full of natural ways to eat rather than taking enzymes or HCL and I latched onto those for digestive health.
    I've been leaning that way for some time. One article he had was titled, Why I don’t recommend HCl and Digestive Enzymes…Right Away... at one time I knew the author's name but now when I went to a link I had to that article my Malwarebytes software popped up a warning so I did not go any further.

    Maybe a mute point as I am now interested in Dr. Jack Kruse's perspective of digestion.

    Got to get down to brass tacks and study the basics instead of just entertaining myself by
    Goggling filling in one of hundreds of subjects I've studied and wondered about for the past 10 years plus Jack Kruse to see what comes up.

    Having to tear down my health ideology to build on a better foundation. Moving at a snails pace but still moving.

  11. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Please post what you have found.
    But to make it short only the text that gives you direct and useful advice.
    And links to where it was written.
    Skip all other.

    Martha Ray likes this.
  12. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray New Member

    JanSz Thank You ....writing is therapy, discovery, and focus for me but self indulgent and not helpful to others will write and then dissect to post for value. I have a lot I want to ask and a lot I want to share..... again, thank you for the advice.
  13. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    When you are using someone's work, eventually/hopefully you are developing your own pov about the subject.

    So far you have shared nothing.

    If you post your own opinion, someone else may point and tell you that he/she thinks that you are right or wrong.
    You can only gain from that kind of exchange.
    If you do not post you may be missing a big part of the story.

    But every one of us is different.
  14. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray New Member

    Yes, we are all different.... like the eye being different from the hand. They both need each other. I think all parts are needful even the ones we do not initially see as useful.
  15. Christina Gagnon

    Christina Gagnon New Member

    Do you know if betaine hcl benefits someone with sacroilitis?
  16. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray New Member

    Ten years ago I took HCL, Premier ( Betaine Hydrochloride) https://prlabs.com/hcl-e2177-1.html and HCL Activator https://prlabs.com/hcl-activator-prlabs.html and promptly gave myself an duodenal ulcer that took me over a year to heal taking about 15 different things beginning with rounds of Pepcid. I now try and carefully weigh what I take as like with food all supplements have pros and cons for each person....sometimes I feel like just sticking with my FOOD RESEARCH supplements that are 100% food and or herbs and herbal tinctures. One reason I am attracted to Dr. Jack Kruse's work as he is not overly 'supplement' oriented. I am unsure if folks should take HCL without knowing if they are high or low acid..if that is even possible... as they have the same symptoms. I just don't know for sure ways to test...although when I did at home testing with baking soda I think it was it did indicate I'm on the acid side and also my twin brother was also prone to heartburn, GERD before he cleaned up his diet. The activator product has nightshades and high oxalates ingredients. About 8 years ago I eliminated nightshades and my joint pain was greatly improved and just last year I discovered a genetic connection to my being sensitive to oxalates. I have 3 Variated Oxalate SNPs including homozygous for GRHPR. Based on that and concurrent with symptoms of pain and disrupted calcium scores my Metabolic Counselor suggests a greater that 50% probability of oxalate related issues. So I am in the process of learning and slowly (as not to cause oxalate dumping) reducing my oxalate intake by 50 %.

    I did find some stellar advice online but the link to the article brings up a Malware warning
    which was titled 'Why I don’t recommend HCl and Digestive Enzymes…Right Away' (I can't find a good link to it)
    A few basics from the article were:
    -Increase the amount of natural enzymes-- eat more raw food
    -Chew or puree food
    -Take a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar 15-20 minutes before you eat
    -Use bitters

    -Eat more fermented foods

    The Author said,
    “The bottom line: In dealing with and healing from IBD naturally, we already buy so many supplements—everyone has their favorite, THE supplement without which you cannot heal. Improving your digestion is one area in which you can build good habits and experiment without ever purchasing a single pill.”

    I will try and find my notes and find his name to give him credit ... I liked his thinking!

    All uncommon 'common sense'

    Rubicon likes this.
  17. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray New Member

    I do need help I am forgetful (posted again same info in the same way) and a slow learner...but will keep repenting and keep working for short texts to share.

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