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Another NAD+ question...

Discussion in 'Ask Jack' started by NeilBB, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    Well brother, I think Yew is further along at figuring this out than anyone. I do not know how or whether to recommend it to others yet, but the gum has been very physically and cognitively stimulating for me without any observable downside. Like caffeine, but much better, without the problems. Low doses. About 4-14mg per day of gum. Earlier in day better than later. Like Yew, I recently found that use of diatomaceous earth seems to make the nicotine less desirable. Presumably related to gut-nitrogen coupling. I'm sure it can be overdone and I don't know about the longer term effects yet.
     
    SCRN2007, Brother John and Shijin13 like this.
  2. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    Problem posting, will try an edit .....
     
  3. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    Neil, your post about nicotine, oxygen and UV (can't post quote at the moment ...) reminded me of something I read years ago on Biological Transmutation (Louis Kervan). It was a theory of how calcium can be made from potassium and hydrogen and a specific enzyme, another route being magnesium and oxygen and a specific enzyme ... I wasn't sure how it could work and I wondered at the time if a frequency of light was also needed, Nicotine gum ok in the summer but probably not a wise winter biohack for me here in the UK I think, unless I rake out my UV facial tanner .... ?
     
  4. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    @Sue-UK Nice... linkage. I've been talking with @Josh and asked him about Nicotine for me, as my intuition says no. He thinks its best used summer months (given where you're at N vs S hemisphere)
     
  5. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    I would think hard about it if I was living at altitude too ... I was interested to read that biological transmutation is possible at great depths in the ocean, so its possible there is a cold, dark boring transmutation of nicotine to niacin too .... ?
     
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    nicotine makes more sense in winter time than summertime..........just sayin'

    You'll see soon enough.
     
    SCRN2007 likes this.
  7. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01846a026?journalCode=jacsat&
    This was the paper I found Sue, from 1941. Nicotine was converted to nicotinamide (Vitamin B3) in the presence of oxygen and UV radiation. This is generally regarded as impossible today and conventional wisdom claims that the similarity in names between "nicotine" and "nicotinamide" is completely unfounded. Dogma or truth? You be the judge!
     
  8. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    Likely because nicotine supercharges ketosis at mitochondrial complex I, better than oral niacin, or the much more expensive supplement nicotinamide riboside of Sinclair, et al...
    That's what my research, intuition, and personal results lead me to believe at least, and that has been my working assumption for some time now...
     
  9. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    Also, nicotine, whether inhaled, absorbed sublingually in gum, or through transdermal patches, does not have to be absorbed through the gut the same way the oral supplements need to be. This may be an important pharmacokinetic advantage, especially if gut flora/enterocytes are suboptimal.
     
    SCRN2007, Brother John and Clayton like this.
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    or might it optimize a bad flora?
     
  11. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    I wonder if the degree of flushing with oral niacin correlates with the composition of the gut flora?
     
    Brother John and nonchalant like this.
  12. Josh

    Josh Gold

    No comment, I am making my N=1 experiments using liquid nicotine orally at doses of 4-16mg/day. Nasty taste, interesting effects. I will see at the end of the summer. I have noticed most of what has been suggested. I was at 10,000 feet 2 days ago and at 1500 yesterday. Most noticeable is the absence of pain in the body and change in stool to darker color, same Bristol #4 before and after. Climbers have been known to smoke in bivy while hanging off of the sides of Himalayan mountains, my porters in the Himalayas would run with 60lb loads from one smoke to the next, Swami Rama said "all hillmen (of India) and Yogis smoke at times"......
     
    SCRN2007, Brother John and NeilBB like this.
  13. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    The nicotine is mostly absorbed buccally and sublingually right Josh? You don't swallow it, so it mostly bypasses gut first pass effect?
     
    Brother John likes this.
  14. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Looking around, the world is really confused about nicotine and big pharma and government are not enthusiastic about a non-patentable treatment for a lot of things, kind of like the Cannabis plant....
     
    fitness@home, Brother John and NeilBB like this.
  15. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Yes, I just keep it in my mouth. Sometimes I use a little raw honey or pollen with it.
     
    Brother John likes this.
  16. Josh

    Josh Gold

    http://www.decodedscience.com/drugs-nature-chemistry-addictive-alkaloids/53057

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaloid

    http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/17193/PDF

    I like this one, food for thought...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1224640/

    Looks like the moths learned to use plant alkaloids to make more hormones and breed more successfully during a shorter lifespan suggesting that plant alkaloids may favor progestational homone pathways....
     
  17. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Perhaps alkaloids suppress less favorable organisms in our gut and the microbiome. The neurological and vasodilating effects may be beside the point as it "weeds" our microbiome for us. These effects are just the "cost"....these are the same effects that suppress the systems of less favorable microorganisms?
     
    Clayton likes this.
  18. Josh

    Josh Gold

    something like this...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652102/
     
    kovita likes this.
  19. Josh

    Josh Gold

    http://www.eolss.net/EolssSampleChapters/C03/E6-79-19/E6-79-19-TXT.aspx

    The most widespread use of tobacco is for worms and to kill or repel insects....if this has been a common strategy for long enough, how might our nervous system adapted to it and the persistence of plant alkaloids in the diet? At the quantum level, where is the enthalpic and thermodynamic advantage? Does it reduce the use of oxygen as an end terminal for electrons in the ECT enhancing non-aerobic functions?
     
    lilly antic and kovita like this.
  20. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    High fat diets force the use of mitochondria. What does that mean if you have bad mito? What does it mean for good? High carbohydrate diets provide more energy by fermentation, without causing us to use mitochondria. Bacteria tend to like this. Where are bacteria in you? How to do bacteria and your mitonuclear coapatation work? Here is another clue.......those with mitochondria diseases who have adopted long term ketogenic diets have been known to collapse into coma because their damaged mitochondria can't provide the energy needed for a conscious life without help from fermentation. Paleo advocates carbs for that reason.........some of advocate Nicotine when you are Jimmy Moore.........WHY? Nicotine slightly increases glucose levels to give a small superoxide pulse to make new mitochondria and dig yourself out of the hole called mitochondria sensecence. BOOM. All people as they age.........acquire this same damage......but the timescale results in the disease you get.
     

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