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An unhealthy mind.

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by Rhoswen, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Rhoswen

    Rhoswen New Member

    @KiwiLauren - I hadn't implemented it before but I'll start implementing the Leaky Gut Prescription too. :) I've actually been taking L-Glutamine on and off to help with cravings and I should have put two and two together about it! I need to start taking it consistently instead of just on and off.

  2. Can I just say wow? I went looking for help today, and this really helped It explains why all that time and work and, yes, NLP, hypnosis, introspection fell on barren soil.
  3. Rhoswen

    Rhoswen New Member

    Yes, that quote also had a big impact on me. :) Sometimes I'd feel like a failure because while therapy helped me to function, I still definitely didn't feel like I was "optimal" either.
  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    this is why I like building this place....its a safe house for us all to help one and another......Paleo it forward folks.
  5. Rhoswen

    Rhoswen New Member

    Yes, I agree completely! I feel like if I talked about this with other people, even people who care about me, they'd think I really had lost my mind! :) Truly, thank you very much for making this forum. I don't feel shy posting here like I did when we had the monster thread over on MDA either.
  6. wyldeman

    wyldeman New Member

    yes, thank you
  7. Rhoswen

    Rhoswen New Member

    Awww... Thank you for such a nice compliment. :eek: Posting this thread actually made me feel pretty good, not just to get all the good advice, but to get such nice replies from everyone too! This is becoming a Kodak Moment, haha~
  8. PaleoSue

    PaleoSue New Member

    I, too, have struggled with depression, anxiety and social anxiety for my entire life.

    I’ve discovered what I term "natural emotional healing" that has really helped me over the last year and a half, and I feel so lucky to have had the opportunity to learn these techniques. But to be most effective I do think these need to be paired with paleo/leptin RX. :)

    There is something called co-counseling, in which two people take turns listening to the other. There are some very specific techniques used by the “counselor†that anybody can learn. Co-counseling has been around for a few decades, but many people have never heard of it.

    I have found co-counseling, rather than professional therapy, to be very effective for me because:

    1. I feel a close friendship with the person I am co-counseling -- it reminds me a little of being part of a tribe. This helps me feel that people like me, that I belong, and that I am worthy of friendship because I am helping my friend by being the counselor as well. You don’t get this in professional therapy because therapists are taught to keep their distance.

    2. Co-counseling has helped teach me what to say in social situations. The techniques we learn in co-counseling include things like not giving advice, listening well, being understanding and paraphrasing what the other person is saying.

    3. Co-counseling has also raised my self-esteem. I am able to more easily see that my own negative thoughts aren't true because the person I am co-counseling has the same thoughts. I can look at her objectively and see that it's not true that "no one likes her" because I think she's a great person. This helps me believe the same about myself.

    One other aspect of this natural healing is embracing what is called emotional releases. We are born to deal with all the emotional hurts that life gives us. If you watch young children, they will cry at the top of their lungs, sometimes at what seems to be the most minor emotional hurt. And then after they’re done crying, if no adults chide them into stopping, they will be fine – happy even. Children will laugh, rage and cry whenever they need to.

    But as we grow up, we’re taught that crying is not OK. That women who cry are hysterical, that men who cry are weak, or that we are not in control of our emotions. So we spend all this energy trying NOT to cry, when crying is exactly the thing we have to do.

    Not crying is akin to bottling everything up inside, stuffing our hurts down. But if we don’t let them out, then they cause us not only emotional harm, but physical harm as well. (As you know, depression can cause all kinds of physical symptoms.) I try to get a good cry about once a week. It sounds a bit hokey, but it seriously works.

    I'd be happy to talk with anyone about co-counseling or these emotional releases. Just PM me.
  9. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    From a summary of Nora Gegaudas talk at Paleo FX (and more insight into stress and inflammation and the importance of continuing on this path for our mental health as well as our physical!): (from: http://roosclues.blogspot.co.nz/2012/03/nora-gedgaudas-on-adrenal-function.html)... (thanks to Jennifer for posting on the Leptin RX thread)

    These notes are for one section of a talk given by Nora Gedgaudas during the Paleo Summit. She was refuting the idea of safe starches, put forward by Paul Jaminet (author of The Perfect Health Diet), and discussing hypoglycemia. She explains that hypoglycemia only occurs in people who are (unnaturally) temporarily adapted to getting glucose from dietary sugars and starches, and that for people who are fat burners- which is what the human body is adapted for- mood and cognitive functioning are not dependent on blood sugar levels. The human body can make all of the glucose it needs in the liver from amino acids, there is no need to get it from the diet.

    The exception to this, she explains, is when people have chronically depressed cortisol levels. What really caught my attention is that she says that this low cortisol production is not because the adrenals themselves have been "exhausted" by stress, which she says is an outdated idea. She says that cortisol output is not controlled by the glad itself, but by the brain. It is mitigated by the HPA (Hypothalamus Pituitary Axis), specifically by a group of cells inside the hypothalamus called the Paraventricular Nuclear cells (PVN). The level of cortisol that we produce depends on how these cells are stimulated- whether the balance of neurochemicals leans towards excitatory or inhibitory, but in particular by the presence of inflammatory cytokines. To rephrase that, low cortisol levels are caused by inflammation in the brain. Various stressors on the body result in the release of these cytokines, including chronic infection. This process can also impact our balance of neurotransmitters.
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    nora G is spot on......but the high carbers hate her message too.
  11. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    I haven't had any more depression since going low carb 1.5 years ago. Such a relief. I think it was losing the grains, for me.
  12. mshobbs

    mshobbs Silver

    I have been low carb for the past 12 months and saw some improvement with the depression though I kept to the same level of medication(Efexor) just in case.

    It has only since starting CT in late Feb that the real improvement has taken off.

    My self esteem has gone through the roof and feel as though I don't need the support the medication provides. So starting this Monday I have halved - with the approval of my doc - my current dosage.

    Be interesting to see how this goes.

  13. Rhoswen

    Rhoswen New Member

    When someone posts in a forum saying that their depression seems to have gotten worse on Paleo, everyone always almost immediately starts wailing, "ZOMG U NOT GETTIN ENUGH CARBS!111111!!11" even when the person comes back and says they're eating near 100 grams of carbs a day. Even before I was doing the Leptin RX, I would scratch my head and wonder why. Everyone seems to agree in the Paleosphere that human beings should be using fat to function, not carbs. So why are some people so insanely angry when people want to eat LOW carb?

    The excuse for getting more carbs to relieve depression stems from needing carbs to make serotonin... But from my very novice understanding, I thought that for the brain to make serotonin, it actually needs Tryptophan or 5-HTP and those are amino acids that should be found in proteins, right? Then why would someone need to up there carbs for that?

    @PaleoSue - I've never heard of that type of therapy but it sounds pretty nice. I do realize I kinda bottle up my feelings, because I never want to upset other people BECAUSE I'm afraid they'll abandon me. LOL It triggers a cycle of me losing my mind, and that's not really appealing to people so what happens? They decide they can't be my friend anymore. So I end up triggering the exact thing I didn't want to do because I bottled my feelings up.

    I must admit, this is the first time I've really acknowledged and recognized these patterns of behavior in myself. A few years ago, I was stumped as to what I was doing wrong. I couldn't see through that doom and gloom fog of depression what I was doing to my friends.

    But even though I recognize this behavior I'm still having a hard time stopping myself, haha! :)

    @August - Social Phobias - I think bad social experiences contribute to this... with people who's brain chemistry is already messed up. I know many people who have been bullied or harassed, far worse than anything I had experienced, but they still came out of it better, happy people. Why would this be? It makes sense to me that it's because of brain chemistry. Just like how some people can seem very healthy following a CW diet, even know we all know it's not healthy.

    Feeling unlovable - I could tell you that for me, I know that voice in my brain that says that is not true. If it were, I'm sure most of my friends and family would have totally abandoned me at this point. I have a guy who tells me how much he adores me, if I was unlovable how could I attract anyone at all? I'm sure you have people like that in your life too. I found that even when I had people telling me they loved me and praising me, that evil voice would come along and say, "Har har, they're lying to you."

    But you gotta challenge that voice, back it into a corner, and you'll see that the voice is full of bull crap. I always ask that voice, "Why would they lie to me? Give me a logical reason why."

    I just keep asking it why and almost always, the voice can't give a good reason why. I do this in my head now, but I had to start out on paper. This was part of the cognitive behavioral therapy I did.
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I believe quelson and think he is spot on. Those therapies don't work for clinical depression. I am right there with quelson and will take his advice here with the vitamin D and am definetly going keto. I will know when I am there by the way I feel. I have suffered with depression for a life-time. I didn't see this post but I am happy you brought it forward August.

    Do we need a prescription for that high a dose in Vitamin D?

    PS...F***k therapy and whoever invented it.
  15. caroline

    caroline New Member

    I think this thread is amazing. You are so brave. It is great to hear from others about what they are going thru and relate it to our own set of problems. I wish for you good health and so much happiness
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The reason is advice on some of "the" cliquish paleo sites owned by clinicians. It gets propagated all over the paleosphere and then it becomes paleo dogma. They never get called on it because they are all well liked and it hurts people. Kinda like depression drugs do but no one wants to talk about that nightmare either........it amazes me how they get a pass. I have heard both say many many time moderation is the key.......well guess what? Moderation leads to mediocrity and mediocrity is not how Mother Nature responds in nature in case anyone is watching her........I am. When I here the moderation line it is A CW wisdom response in disguise.......it is a modern healthcare facade and in my view is more dangerous to a modern hominid. I think you the public have to view this viewpoint and decide what is best for you. Don't rely on us to make the decisions. Rely on us to see how we think about thinks and then apply those things to yourself and test them for yourself and then adjust your life. I already know what a life of mediocre choices makes for a human. Apparently many do not. I want you to begin to think about reading between the lines about what many of us in the paleosphere really are advocating and why. It appears that many are afraid of creating waves in their local areas for fear of stepping out of line. If you live paleo and don't advocate it in your practice than you are nothing but a mirage of nonsense to me. Practice what you preach and dont worry about CYA from the lawyers and your clueless co workers. It appears your social standing matters more than the substance your person. Have the courage of one to stand up for what is correct. People will not follow you or seek you out if you are soft on your own beliefs.
  17. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    if you want moderation........in evolution go read the polar GPS story I just posted on CT 9. 426 mile swim in freezing water and took her cub.........? Moderation for her was a certain death. Mother Nature has different rules than modern medicine. Realize that folks! evaluate your situation with these facts........then make decisions.
  18. IMHO, you need both - brain support and a way to explore new ways of viewing the world and reacting to the world. Here is a great podcast on brain drain. Dr Kalish talks about the effect of SSRIs on the brain. He also recommends the 5 HTP and L Tyrosine, always be taken together so there is a balance of serotonin and dopamine. Both my mom and I started taking them and feel better - more energy and more focus. I think its helpful to feel better but view it as a band-aide to get me started. Leptin Rx and CT are going to the root and bringing healing to the cause. Its easier to keep going on Leptin RX and CT when I feel good!

  19. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Dan Kalish is spot on in my view.....he has a lot more to offer than many of the paleo mental health people I have come across.
  20. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold


    Bad therapy/support is like bad diet. Just because there are bad diets, doesn't mean there aren't good ones. And even if you eat a good diet, there is more to health than that (CT, circadian cycles, etc). If 'one thought can change your life' then clearly there are multiple, mutually-reinforcing avenues towards alleviating depression and other problems. For many people, one avenue can make major change, but for many others (like me) it took a combination of right diet, right thinking and right relationships. Optimal for that polar bear meant taking her cub! That's what this forum is about.

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