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AMPK Activators

Discussion in 'Mitochondrial Rx' started by NADme, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. NADme

    NADme New Member

    While I remain open to the possibility of no mito supplementation, I will continue to march on until the issues of toxicity, chelation and other detoxifications, expecially ETOH, is addressed. As much, my current focus is on AMPK activators and a I have reviewed various possibilities and combinations and find AICAR to be of particular interest, as many cyclists seem to as well. The more I work with NAD the more I realize its oversell and failures by so many of its place at the table, especially as applied to addiction treatment.

    Aside from the implications of light and retina, and specifically targeting mito elements, I find myself hung up on the possibilities and current findings associated with AMPK activators and the implications it has on NAD and the endurance augmentations and intracellular increases derived from the extracellular NAD, such as NMN penetration and concentration increase due to the AMPK activators.

    AICAR is banded by the doping commisions, so as with GH it makes access and acquiring difficult. However, as with most anything a little effort goes a long way and as applied the sourcing is available. Has anyone here tested the effects of AICAR or any other AMPK activator?
     
  2. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Hi Hemo.
    Not sure if it is on topic.
    Coincidence of abbreviations? Aloe Mucilaginous Polysaccharide (AMP)
    and
    you can still buy this stuff OTC.
    And since it is natural may not ring bells on drug testing.

    When I was in trouble A.M.P. MoloCure Platinum helped me (tremendously).
    (NOTE: I was mixing it with lecithin from lef.org)
    (Since I have seen really good and quick help, makes me wonder if this stuff is not the way to go (instead of) PC from BodyBio.com)(and overall less expensive than PC).


    upload_2018-7-9_7-20-13.png

    That was about in 1997 or 8.
    Retired, no, just given up on working, in June 97, then all hell broke loose.
    I still have original bottle.
    My bottle looks very similar to bottle in low right on picture below.
    http://www.molocure.com/

    upload_2018-7-9_7-18-8.png


    https://www.ampfloracel.com/


    upload_2018-7-9_7-26-37.png


    upload_2018-7-9_7-29-47.png
    upload_2018-7-9_8-18-3.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  3. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The only AMPk activator that I can get behind for the right people based upon their context is metformin
     
    JanSz likes this.
  5. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    AICAR has been used in pulmonary fibrosis.......but it seems to only work in new mitochondria with low heteroplasmy. Metformin works in all kinds of mito with various levels of heteroplasmy.
     
  6. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    [​IMG]
     
    Scompy likes this.
  7. NADme

    NADme New Member

    Metformin chews up testosterone and hammers cortisol.
     
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    AMPk activators all seem to work via circadian controllers........none of the researchers want to believe that. That is why the circadian mechanism must be repaired before any redox chemicals are added to mix.

    Propofol is an AMPk activator. This is the medicine I use every day in surgery to put people to sleep. It is also the medicine that killed Micheal Jackson.

    The GABAA receptor antagonist bicuculline, which reverses propofol anesthesia, activates AMPK in mouse cortical neurons via Ca2+ influx and flumazenil (a GABAA receptor antagonist). Moreover, it is capable of induces preconditioning by increasing the levels of ROS but the production of ROS is not quantized. The ROS made when the experiment is repeated is never the same. This is a clue to what researchers are missing with respect to the matrix. Basheer et al. as well as researchers from the University of Pennsylvania showed that AMPk is activated during extended periods of wakefulness but is inhibited during sleep in the basal forebrain and cerebral cortex of rats and mice.

    This implies that the use AMPk drugs needs the DC electric current of daytime to be present........studying this in nocturnal animals, like rats and mice, will further confuse the scientists and I think it has. Their matrix makes ROS differently than diurnal animals. (melanopsin link)
     
  9. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Not in everyone.
     
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    There are big clues AMPk activation needs UV and IR light because of actions on the ATPase.

    Decreases in AMPK activation during sleep (absent DC electric current) were also associated with increases in ATP, which would decrease AMPK activation as increases in the AMP(ADP)/ATP ratio activates AMPK.

    Creatine, which also activates AMPK, decreased total sleep time, NREM sleep, and NREM delta activity significantly in rats. The interesting thing is creatine has this effect when given to the animal when awake but it reacts differently when they are asleep.......further linking it to the circadian mechanism.

    This tells us the melanopsin system is controlling AMPk gears......you must get them right before using redox drigs........no one does. Humans like you and JanSz are resistant to natures whispers in these experiments because people believe we can re-engineer nature.

    I've learned you cannot.
     
    Helio Silva, JanSz and digital like this.
  11. NADme

    NADme New Member

    Only when the NAD+/NADH ratios are imbalanced. The Beth Israel study indicates greater intracellular penetration. Jack I am just a guy trying to survive, I could be in error. However, I am the first to say that NAD has and is being oversold. It has its place at the table but only in a very limited way as a monotherapy. The greedy tend to disagree with me.

    However, I have witnessed repeatable, amazing restorations with just NAD as applied with specificity. The long pole in the tent is synergistic, composite affects that can be delivered. Currently focused on PQQ, Ubiquinol, ALCAR, solid B chain and a mixed B12 of adeno/hydroxy, NAD IV at 1000mgs in 500ML twice a month, ALA but the throughput seems to be via AMPk activation. Mice modeling demonstrated sustained 45% increase in endurance, Type 1 mitigation, glucose adaption , etc. I need to post the study.
     
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I used to use AICAR in aneurysm surgery when we had to use cardiac arrest......we do not do this anymore......but the AICAR really was not affected in anesthesia...........for the reasons above.

    Interestingly it had some effects when the craniotomy was done with the person awake.......again proving the point of the circadian control. MB had far better effects on mitochondrial function and that is why it has replaced AICAR.

    AICAR is an intermediate in the generation of inosine monophosphate so it is related to creatine. AICAR is an analog of adenosine monophosphate (AMP) that is capable of stimulating AMP-dependent protein kinase (AMPK) activity. AICAR has been used clinically to treat and protect against cardiac ischemic injury. The drug was first used in the 1980s as a method to preserve blood flow to the heart during surgery.
     
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The matrix water does not allow anything to get to the place it needs to be........this is why exogenous redox molecules are a WASTE. Sorry.....NADme I am not a buyer.

    EZ blocks anything above the size of H+.

    This is why nature wins.

    The mitochondria has to allow redox chemical to work because it has to make them inside out.

    IT is a foundational premise of a cell.
     
    Brent Patrick and JanSz like this.
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I am so beyond past this myopia it is not funny.......I continue to be amazed how smart people keep ignoring basic principles that have been repeated by experiment over and over again.

    Exogenous redox drugs are a losing strategy.
     
  15. NADme

    NADme New Member

    JanSz likes this.
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    But if you like banging your head and wallet into a wall like JanSz does........go for it.

    I'll indulge you here.

    Why?

    Your persistence teaches my black swans about how nature really works. I appreciate that.
     
    Jenelle, Alex97232, Billybats and 2 others like this.
  17. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  18. NADme

    NADme New Member

    NAD is a oxidant. Everyones focus on the redox NAHD is misplaced because of ETOH and its converting affects on NAD (aka NAD+) to NADH. That imbalance ratio is where the mito starts to get queered.

    Also, I have the lead NASA doubleblind, PK and IRB doctor working with us to set up double blinds. If what you assert is true then it is contrary to a major metabolic restore that I cant publish yet. If the repeatably proves out it is a game changer.

    As mentioned, I agree NAD has been oversold on many fronts. However, my eyes dont lie and they have seen the glory. You have Elysium and all their doctor blah blah all of Time magazine and making assertions about NAD when the guy is pushing NR. Does the profession you share call him out as an outright liar? Does the oath even have a place in todays world anymore?

    Mine is one of charity, 4000 hours no compensation. I help people because they are being laid to waste by a system that is beyond broken. I agree NAD has some shortcomings as applied to opiates, opioids, benzos and diazapenes. However, as applied to ETOH there is no other.

    Pontification by theory vs realization by practice. Metabolically I agree, if it were not true I would be lean by NAD. However, there are barbaric practices occurring in the world of degree waiving MD's that lead with pedigree and not results. This particular practice I am alluring to is about to be replaced by a paradigm shift that I am being blessed enough to be the one to deliver it. My last business partner from Georgetown with a undergrad in chem engineering from Yale thought aligning with people committing fraud was acceptable. I didn't.

    I love your mind Jack. however convention is going retail, what does that tell you? If there are not more of you who are willing to break from lock step and reach down into the swill of the poor then humanity may as well throw in the towel because what I see on a daily basis comes straight from the pit of hell and it is known as insurance, the joint commission and all of the bullshit that layers greed and bureaucracy in so morbidity is assured and social programs funded. Science has not place in such an entitled world.
     
  19. NADme

    NADme New Member

    i will keep hammering away that if heavy metal and other detox is not addressed as a premise to all that follows then most any protocol is a band-aid at best.
     
  20. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    When your flowers do not bloom, you fix the environment in your garden, you don’t try to alter the flower. Why doesn’t your functional doc do this? Why doesn’t the supplement maker recommend this before you use their product? Why doesn't guys like NADme get it? Could it be a defective antenna within? A better questions are why are you waiting on him to get it? = LOW DOPAMINE STATE = CHANGING YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS HARD
     

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