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All Things T3

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by Patty Cakes, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. diane

    diane Gold

    Bigknitwit - why not try leaving everything else the same, go off the acetyl L-carnatine for a week or so, then add it back again. Then you will know if that's what is doing it or something else. If you change too much at one time, you won't be able to figure out which one may have been the issue. Then, if that's not a problem, try the d-rhibose.
  2. nuttmegs17

    nuttmegs17 New Member

    Yes, i am suspecting that the P might be causing the odd weight gain. There is a ton of stories i keep bumping into of people taking P - even BIO P and it causing 10-30 pound weight gain. Since i have so much going on with the Thyroid, I am thinking of backing off the bio-s for a bit (As P is the only thing i'm on) and just sticking to the Pregnelone, and 7 keto DHEA until i see some consistency with my thyroid. My p hasnt gone up much since being on it.

    Based on my recent labs, i dont think the E is responsible for the bigger/sorer breasts. My E is actually lower than when I started but my P is up.

    How long did it take you to drop the P weight?
  3. vkiernan

    vkiernan Silver

    All my p is bio btw. Doesn't matter, too much is too much any way you look at it. Might even be our bodies neep to adapt to it and it might temporarily cause a negative effect. I guess we have to ride it out and see. I think I remember Jack telling me something about the brain and it takes a bit for things to change and be recoginized. Something to that effect anyway. In other words, be patient. Iirc it was a cycle after I dropped back on the p. I had to clear some of the p out first. But, I also had a bacteria called vibrio and I don't know if that was part of my weight loss now or not. I believe I had it since October which would mean it wasn't from the vibrio but not sure at this point. I also cleared my rt3 the end of November so a lot of things came into play. But, when I did back off the p the weight just fell off in a month. I was shocked to see it just go whoosh away. But, then I upped the p again some of the weight came back on. A lot of things to consider when I really think about it. P is hard to regulate. It is going to take me a few cycles minimum to figure this out. Now that I, hopefully, got rid of the parasite and the bacteria I might be able to figure it out. I was recently really upping the p and then my nips got sore and I backed off thinking it was the p and then one night I said screw it and took a lot of p and the sore nips went away. Go figure! Yeah, when I really loaded up on p a while back, my breasts grew. I have always been E dom. and never had big ones. We really should move all this conversation over to the p thread.

    Speaking of T3, I am switching to cytomel from compounded to see if I do better. Seems like some of the compounded doesn't get absorbed very well. She is thinking that is my problem cuz I am taking so much. I am also adding a small amount of t4 now too. My main goal now though is to heal the gut and get rid of my metals and see where I'm at. The thyroid might just come back if the metals is my underlying problem. Man I am hoping so!!!! It is amazing what you find out when you test!
  4. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    So, vkiernan, would you possibly mind giving me a one paragraph summary on how you cleared up your reverse T3, and stopped your body from continuing to convert more T4 to rT3 in the future?
  5. vkiernan

    vkiernan Silver

    MG, I went off all t4 and only used t3 so my body doesn't try to make any t4 which will/might convert to rt3. This took me 2 months and a couple of days. I had labs done right after I knew I cleared and they confirmed my beliefs. I also believe I have found the root cause of my problem though, being heavy metals, and once I rid myself of them and get grounded and rid of some emf's, I am hoping I won't convert anymore. Maybe I won't need any thyroid meds.:) I am using doing a little trial and using about 25 mcg of t4 which isn't much at the request of my doc. She assured me that a little t4 won't convert. You really have to figure out why you are converting to rt3 and stop it. You can always use t3 only though like a lot of people do.

    I hope this is what you were looking for in an answer, if not, ask again. And, so sorry I hacked your ask Jack question. If everyone would start the question with: Jack, then someone of us who aren't paying attention to what thread will not do this. Certainly didn't mean to do that since that is a question of mine too.
  6. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    Yes, that is very helpful; thank you!

    I don't think there's any reason in my history for heavy metals to be my root cause; I'll have to (someday) try to dig into it.

    No problem about the Ask Jack; I have totally done that before, too, more than once. I think your suggestion is a good one, too. (I think not answering Q's where that happens is a bit petty, but hey, can't look a gift horse in the mouth.)
  7. Huck

    Huck Silver

    A question for those with Cytomel experience.

    My Reverse T3 has been high for at least 2 years. I have tried unsuccessfully to get it down with Milk Thistle. Iron is OK. Cortisol was low last time I tested. Take Maca, etc for adrenals. Also eating epi-paleo and taking selenium, iodine, and kelp.

    Doctor and I agreed to try T3 to see if that would clear the RT3. I started taking 5mcg liothyronine SOD (Cytomel) before breakfast. Doc said to increase to 10 mcg after a week. I also started taking Anastrazole (Arimidex) to lower Estradiol a few days earlier.

    One of these is really messing me up. After a few days of taking the Cytomel, I started having trouble sleeping and my brain is playing tricks on me. Today I am a little jittery. I think it is the Cytomel, but it could be the Anastrozole or the combination.

    What has been others experience with low dose T3? Will increasing to 10 mcg likely make me feel better or worse?

    I'm thinking about just stopping the T3 for now. From what I have read, the Anastrazole will probably get my Estradiol down in 6-8 weeks. After labs show Estradiol is in range, then restart the T3. Suggestions?
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  8. BJK77

    BJK77 Gold

    Cytomel caused a lot of issues for me with sleep, brain fog, fatigue, etc, but it wasn't driven by the T3. It was more of a reaction to all the fillers. I do fine on low dose compounded T3. Just something to consider . . .
  9. MartiD

    MartiD New Member

    After taking Synthroid for 8 weeks my new Dr. put me on 25 mcg (twice a day) of Cytomel to clear Rt3 issue. I tested after 6 weeks and RT3 went from over top of range to well below range. I didn't or haven't yet gotten that feeling of "clear RT3" that some people refer to but I have read that your lab will clear about 30 days before you get that "feeling". I felt no different on Cytomel really or at least that I noticed...no sleep issues, etc. I have started Naturethroid and have had some issues with a rash that I am not sure are related or not. I was on a week before having issues so I have been off for a week and still have some issues. It could be airborne allergies too.
  10. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    It'll be interesting to see if the NDT causes a new RT3 problem for you, MartiD. What's the reasoning behind hoping that whatever was causing you to convert wrongly before isn't still there? The idea that you could just clear the RT3 and then switch to NDT sounds promising to me.

    Thanks for the update!
  11. MartiD

    MartiD New Member

    I am very lucky to have a really really good Doctor. He is actually an OB/GYN who has a full understanding of hormones, he is a Hashi's patient, is a low-carb advocate, and full believes in a AI diet protocol. I feel very fortunate to have stubbled across him...again. He actually was my Dr when I had my first child!

    My hope is that my RT3 was elevated due to either having been overweight with a SAD diet or due to losing 50 lbs. I have read that RT3 can be high for either reason. In addition I will be doing a saliva test for cortisol and DHEA in 30 days to look at those issues. I discovered I had Hashi's last September and of course the endo put me on Synthroid and said that I would never need to test for RT3 or antibodies again but it doesn't really matter! That is when I start looking for a new Dr.

    I'm planning on retrying the naturethroid tomorrow and seeing if I have another rash outbreak. The rash outbreak is most likely airborne allergies because I had two episodes in early 2012 before I had been on any thyroid meds but mostly likely my thyroid was way off then.
  12. Good luck Marti! If the rash starts up again my guess is also fillers. If that is the case I would try compounded NDT or just stick with the T3.

    Also, adrenals and problematic iron (too high or low) can cause the rT3 issues. It will be interesting to see what your ASI test results are.
  13. It could be the T3 causing these issues. I didn't have any of these experiences but have read about this before. If the adrenals cannot handle the T3 only your body will react as if it is hyper. That could be what is going on. I like you idea of sticking with Anastrazole and add the T3 later when your estradiol is reduced. Then you can try with a clean slate and hopefully you won't have any of the same issues.
  14. MartiD

    MartiD New Member

    I expected my iron to be low because my Mother was always anemic but actually if anything it was a bit high. Ferritin was 105 (10-291), IBC 119 (40-119), TIBC 235L (240-450) % sat 51 (15-55)
  15. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    MartiD that's great new re: your doctor!! Glad to hear. Despite what I might have written if feeling frustrated and/or how people interpret me, I still have a hope that I can find a good dr. some day too. One who is at least willing to 'go with the flow' with what I present to him/her. I'm still so young, so I have time. I am able to manage decently right now on my own too. Nothing too severe thankfully (of course I don't know what's actually underneath...but you know what I mean). :) :D Youth I DO believe is at least on my side for now. Helps my body to at least 'fake it 'til I make it'. But I am always learning and I've learned ALOT in the past year. It really helped during a time I really needed it. Again the being young factor probably helped cushion me during whatever crash I was having in 2011. Probably if I was in my 40s and that type of thing happened, well it would not have been very good b/c it also included a lot of PTSD. Phew too young age.

    So anyways it makes me optimistic to see others who are having success with finding a doctor that will help. I am also crossing my fingers for some upcoming opportunities which might help improve my financial situation too. So all in good time and yes, I was pissed a few days ago, but obviously it doesn't last forever and time heals everything (as they say). Humans are humans and mistakes happen and emotions fly sometimes. To be gentle and compassionate to oneself is very important (something I think JK said to me in his response to me).
  16. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Phew too young age.
    * Is supposed to read as: Phew, yay to young age.
  17. diane

    diane Gold

    Zorica - I hope you find a good doctor too! Although I'm learning that sometimes the best kind is the one that is open and will listen - not necessarily one that knows it all. At least, that's what I hope for. :)

    I understand that everyone gets frustrated. And everyone deals with it differently. Good for you for recognizing it and then be able to move forward. :)
  18. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Thanks Diane. Yes, a doc that is open minded and willing to do what you ask hehe rather than know it all: Actually it's probably the best.

    Yep. Just am looking for the same thing as everyone else here and that is good health and happy life. I'm here for support if anyone needs and vice versa. If I can give an advice that helps or just an encouraging word of support, then I feel good. :)

    Good luck Diane if you're looking for a good doc. too. :)
  19. fitness@home

    fitness@home Silver

    Posting an update here. Had my annual physical and labs done in January 18. Doc ran everything I wanted, but the lab tech missed four of the...one being RT3. Went back and had them redo FT3 and RT3 so the results would be from the same day. My RT3 came back < 5, so I used "5" as my number for calculation. That put the FT3/RT3 ratio at 71.8! Posted on the RT3 yahoo group for feedback.

    Rather than re-type my post I am just going to copy/paste it and the response I received:


    It's been a few months since I posted, but I still read here on a regular basis. Would like to ask your opinion on my new labs, three months after starting T3 only (mid October). I never felt a “clearing” like others speak of. Worked my way up to 75 mcg daily and have been there ever since. I don’t feel hyper and have not had any other negative physical symptoms. My temps are very stable and average at 98.4

    Questions and Observations:
    So from a RT3 Ratio perspective, how high is too high? It went up significantly.
    Should I drop back to 50 mcg T3 per day?
    Would like your input on my Iron levels. Ferritin is up indicating inflammation?
    B12 is high but I have some MTHFR issues
    Vitamin D isn’t ideal, but it actually went up this winter.

    Recent Labs First / Labs from Before T3 Only
    Free T3/Rev T3 Ratio, 71.8 / 11.3
    TSH, 0.10 / 2.15, (0.40-4.5 mIU/L)
    Total T4, 0.3 / 7.5, (4.5-12.0 mcg/dL)
    Free T4 Index, 0.2 / 2.3, (1.4-3.8)
    Free T4, 0.3 / 1.1, (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)
    T3 Free, 7.1 / 2.6, (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)
    T3 Total, 359 / 75, (76-181 ng/dL)
    T3Uptake, 27 / 30, (22-35%)
    Reverse T3, <5 /23, (11-32 NG/dL)
    Sodium, 138 / 139, (135-146 mmol/L)
    Potassium, 4.4 / 4.5, (3.5-5.3 mmol/L)
    B12, NA / 1651 , (200-1100 pg/mL
    Vitamin D, 50 / 43 , (30-100 ng/mL)
    Iron Total, 53 / 114, (40-160 mcg/dL)
    TIBC, 246 / 279, (250-450 mcg/dL)
    % Saturation, 22 / 41, (15-50 % calc)
    Ferritin, 54 / 24, (10-232 ng/mL)

    Response to my post:
    Your iron is low, but so is your tibc. Any other issues with hemoglobin or red blood cells? Do you each iron rich foods and cook in cast iron?

    Your sodium is low. Are you supplementing with Celtic Sea Salt? You know that when we see lower sodium and higher potassium, we suspect low aldosterone. Since your temps are stable, perhaps that is not true for you. But I would definitely increase your sea salt consumption.

    Your vitamin d is fine. Fifty is the low end of the ideal range now.

    Your thyroid labs look the way they should when you're taking T3. You can't work the ratio once you begin taking T3. RT3 disappears from the blood quickly, and now it's just below range. I am thinking that some of your FT3 represents pooling due to low iron. I would definitely consult with a doctor about your low iron.

    I didn't notice my clearing either. If you're feeling good, I wouldn't fuss too much about these labs. If you don't feel ideal yet, then iron is the thing to explore.



    I warned my Internist that the labs were going to show a suppressed TSH and elevated T3 and explained my reasons for doing it. She didn't fully agree but we have some great discussions about healthcare, alternative medicine and "standard care". For example, I switched to Thermography this year, instead of the traditional mammograms. She responded that mammogram is the gold standard...what if the thermography misses something? My response was that thermography would likely see something at much earlier stage.

    When I had my follow up appt she actually told me," Mrs. Clark, I think you should consider one of the programs they offer at a school in Katy, TX. They have 2-yr and 4-yr programs in Chinese Medicine and Acupuncture." Guess she made that suggestion because it's very apparent I don't follow the herd in regards to conventional medicine :)
  20. When did you take you dose of T3 in relation to when the blood was drawn? That can make a huge difference in the results of your FT3. For example I was on 75 mcg of T3 and took my last dose at 7pm the night before labs the next morning. I didn't take my morning dose until after the blood draw. My FT3 was at 2.6. It shows low because it was taken so much prior to the draw. My doc has said she likes labs, for people on T3 only, to be five hours after the dose. I haven't taken any updated labs with this measurement boundary yet but I'm throwing it out here in case it may be helpful. I actually ended up lowering my dose of T3 from 75mcg to 52mcg after starting the mito rx. I got a lot of energy from those supps so felt I could lower the T3. Now I just need to do a lab and see what is going on but I feel good. My goal with the thyroid meds is to be on the least amount to feel good and show good labs.

    Your iron to me looks a little low. I believe your saturation is a little low and should be around 35% and the ferritin is low as well. However I am not sure what a low TIBC means (I have that too and can't seem to find a clear answer). I don't believe that inflammation on ferritin is applicable until it gets much higher than that. IIRC, it should be between 70-100 normally.

    50 on vit D is too low as well. I got mine from 25 to 50 but didn't feel much difference. Once I got it above 70 is where I felt an all around energy. Very slight but it felt good. I'm still trying to build more toward the 100 mark.

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