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All Things T3

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by Patty Cakes, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. For those of us on T3 meds this is a place we can discuss symptoms, meds, vitals, dosing, etc.

    Anything T3 put it here! :D
  2. WannaBeOptimal

    WannaBeOptimal New Member

    You talkin cytomel?
  3. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    You talkin' fish thyroids?
  4. All of it works for me but especially the fish thyroids if you know how much T3 there is in one mackeral thyroid! Anyone?
  5. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    Coriander and I have been discussing how to locate, cook and eat whole pig and sheep thyroids! She even has historical data about a woman who had total thyroid removal who lived for 40 years by eating a whole sheep thyroid twice a week. I'm working up the courage to talk with my local butcher.
  6. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Would be nice to do some experiments on this. I imagine for someone with an intact thyroid, one fish thyroid per week should give some sort of a measurable result.
  7. KiwiLauren you may be in a better place to get thyroid gland than we are. I know MamaGrok couldn't get the thyroid gland from her cow because some state law or something like that. When we got our cow we assumed we would get it and the harvester said he doesn't pull them out. Let us know if you do ever get them. ThyroGold is made from Bovine grass fed cows, IIRC.

    I wonder what happens if we eat thyroid glands from hypothyroid animals?????
  8. bigknitwit

    bigknitwit Silver

    I'm taking cytomel 10mg/day in addition to my 150mcg tirosint (I gel capsule form of synthetic T4). I had increased the T3 all the way to 15, but today I backed down to 10. I think my T4 levels are starting to get decent, and my heart rate was pretty elevated all yesterday afternoon on the 15. I know everyone says T3 only or mostly for hormone replacement, but I'm starting to feel pretty good after 5 weeks on my current protocol. Labs in another week or so...
  9. vkiernan

    vkiernan Silver

    Look what I found...

    This is a good start. I need to now decipher the difference between the 2 thoughts from Jack. Everything in context so there has to be something I am missing. Or, maybe that is exactly what the 2nd thought is about. You can't treat everyone the same as we are all dealing with different things even though on the surface they "appear" to be the same.
  10. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    We have an organic butcher in town who sources only grass fed, fully organic meat. A friend (who is on thyroid meds) and I have been discussing this idea of eating animal thyroid. She knows the butcher and is going to talk with him. Our pig butcher (another one who uses only cage-free healthy pigs) will butcher an entire pig and give it to you. If the organic guy can't do it, I'll speak with the pig guy (I just hope I don't have to buy an entire pig just to get ONE thyroid.) I think I've got a good shot at this. The question is, is it wise?
  11. Coriander

    Coriander Silver

    Lauren, I would consider it as a last resort, if I had no access to any other form of T4/T3. But only because I have no thyroid at all, so until I am cold adapted enough that my brain doesn't care, I need T4/T3 replacement.

    There would be risks involved, because you have no way of measuring the dose. Eating a fried sheep thyroid twice weekly is better than nothing, but I don't think it's anywhere near optimal.
  12. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    ok Ladies and Gents

    here's my take aways on T3 after BG12 (I posted this on the comments section of the blog) - thought it would fit in well here.

    "Epic Post Jack. Its taken me 5 days to truly absorb the importance of it.

    This epic has driven me to ask the following questions to you and my PCP (they can be rhetorical for you if they’re too specific).

    Is my Low T3 really low if I’m eating an optimal Epi-Paleo RX? before this blog I would have thought having Low T3 is problematic – but I think not. I think my body was doing what its designed to – however, I wasn’t feeding my brain what it needed (which is why I’m in the health state I’m in).

    So eating Epi-Paleo and the increase in natural iodine consumption explains why I feel like my thyroid has turned on w/in the past 8 wks of really pushing the Epi-Paleo Rx.

    Additionally is that Low T3 suboptimal b/c its impacting hormone production because of circadian mismatches and lack of iodine, with the end result being pregnenolone steal?

    so, Theoretically, If this is my only problem, the Epi-Paleo Rx will fix this due to sufficient iodine, correct?

    The next statement that’s rolling around my brain is: When you have Low T3, you produce rT3 as a workaround to prevent ROS, I think in certain situations (short term not stressed neolithic life) this could be a good thing b/c rT3 protects us from ROS in times of stress.

    Additionally if rT3 is an oxidative protection mechanism it is also a good indicator of pregnenolone steal?

    The final takeaway I get from this blog is that If I have Low T3, adoption of the Epi-Paleo Rx will allow my body to recover its Iodine state – which will begin to push changes in the T4-> rT3 conversion, back to T4->T3, which the body can use to convert LDL w/Vit A -> pregnenolone

    and from the pregnenolone -> progesterone -> all other steriod hormones.

    All I can say is WOW."
    mamadell and rlee314 like this.
  13. johnnyb

    johnnyb Gold

    I'll take a stab at this. On one hand we see Jack agree that Wilson's syndrome exists (rT3 too high, TSH and T4 potentially "normal" yet one is still hypothyroid). Then he says Wison is dead wrong. I think issue is that Wilson would treat this by giving lots of T3 to turn off TSH from the brain causing the thyroid to shut off T4 until all the rT3 clears providing a "reset". Then back off the T3 allowing TSH -> T4 -> T3 to return to healthy function. I think Jack disagrees with the cure part. There's no magic reset. You need to find the underlying cause like LR and or inflamation and address that aggressively. I bet you should probably be taking T3 while you address LR and inflamation and clear out the rT3. You do want your Ferarri running as you heal.
  14. BJK77

    BJK77 New Member

    This was my hope too after reading BG-12, but then I kind of got a smackdown :( Again, I think the whole issue of context needs to come into play. Could epi-paleo be enough to improve T3, increase iodine, and have a positive trickle down effect on all hormones?!?! I think that CAN happen, but I also think it's possible some of us are too broken to have such an easy fix. I'm concerned some of us may have absorption issues or a breakdown in a critical pathway that just doesn't allow our body to optimally use the nutrients in the foods we're consuming.

    I'd much rather stick with your post Shijin and believe eating a strict epi-paleo diet is all I need, but after talking to Jack I'm pretty convinced I'm going to need more than just diet alone.
  15. johnnyb

    johnnyb Gold

    On my consult jack said my labs/symptoms indicate functional hypothyroidism, mild pregnenolone steal and a little low am cortisol. So I have been bending my mind on this quite intently trying to learn how this works.

    I'm betting that low T3 is pretty much suboptimal. If your body is keeping it low I would expect that indicates a problem. Is T4 converting to rT3 due to inflamation or starvation or LR. Is T3 low because it's all getting used to make pregnenolone? which means your not making enough to keep up with demand. Maybe I am not thinking of why a low T3 would indicate a healthy state. One might say a low T3 is good because it's a survival response, but I would suggest that it's not optimal even if survival does come first.

    I think you may have cause and effect switched with pregnenolone steal. I think pregnenolone steal indicates pregnenolone is going to the cortisol/ oxidative pathway and not sex hormone/ reproductive pathway. Hormones getting used up on stress to survive uses up the T3 potentially leaving one with low T3 and maybe high LDL. Thats the steal part. The complication is that poor thyroid function, Hashis etc, or LR and inflamation turning your T3 to rT3 makes this worse, but I don't think it causes it. Look how LR and inflamation mess everything up. That's why they have such low numbers on the quilt.
  16. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    I think your right context comes into play - most of us have more than just Low T3 going on, so yeah there's going to be a requirement to supplement in some way shape or form. I think Ideally - what I wrote - is how we're supposed to work, and if you're slightly broken it can be fixed w/just diet alone. most of us are well beyond that...but the diet coupled w/the right support will get us there...

    I was seriously going to push for T3 this next update w/Dzugan - but after reading BG12, I'm going to focus on the Epi-Paleo RX and fixing my Pg:E2, and my gut. I'm going to embrace my Low T3, and let it ride. what RT3 I've got is protecting me from futher oxidation... so where is that inflammation coming from? That's what I've got to fix first, before I'll see real progress. If I follow BG12 and start pulling threads - that oxidation/inflammation started in the brain. how do I fix the brain Epi-Paleo. where's my other inflammation coming from - my asthma. Where's the rest of my oxidation/inflammation coming from - PCOS and Insulin resistance that's burning up my arteries. I'm going to pick off the easy things first. fix the brain, fix the asthma, fix the PCOS/Insulin resistance. all lead back to hormones, IL6, TNF etc.

    So for others who are having Low T3, and producing RT3 - the question isn't just how do I fix it, you have to identify the underlying cause. Fix the underlying cause, and everything else will fall into place (for some of us that will require assistance of BHRT, and Compounded T3, among other things) What does Jack keep saying. All neolithic diseases are diseases of the brain. its all in the brain. If our brain can't work, even if everything is at 100% we're not going to get where we want to go.

    go back to my comment on BG11

    "Light is the key that starts/stops the engine. (circadian cycles)

    Food & hormones are the fuel

    CT is the accelerator

    The Brain is the navigator

    Optimal requires all systems working in concert, if one is off the entire system doesn’t work properly or efficiently

    So for those of us who’ve been struggling & seeing minimal if any success w/out paying attention to light should begin to see changes when we pay attn to it. However we must remember we have to turn back our epigenetics switches that have been on for Xyears. We also have to contend with the reversal of disease and illness as a result of our own personal mismatches

    This isn’t going to happen over night. I’ve been working on my health in one way shape or form since 1999 only now am I getting some where Each success peels back another layer. Each layer brings me that much closer to cracking the code w/in me.

    While we’d all love to have the BodyRock.tv bodies in 30 days we’re broken for most of us that isn’t going to happen over night. Once we get our stuff straightened out & flying right the possibilities are endless. While its not fun hearing it’s going to take time it’s the truth. That’s because we’re each working on our own personal masterpiece. And those things just don’t happen over night. They take time effort an love and many of us have to balance working on the masterpiece with the rest of our lives b/c they are integral

    Remember what your masterpiece looks like today is not the final product. Think about the following question and how it relates to your journey: How long did Michael Angelo work on David to get it to its final phase???"

    We have to bring everything together. one thing isn't going to fix what's wrong, for most of us. its going to take having everything working together at 100% for most of us to get where we want to go.... that said, some of us can't do everything at once, so we do one thing at a time, it will just take longer. If we fix the brain - it knows how to fix the body, we have to trust it.
    mamadell likes this.
  17. MartiD

    MartiD New Member

    Find the cause of the Rt3? So how exactly do you do that? So giving T3 or T4 meds is pissing in the wind? So what is the solution? Where did these quotes come from by the way? Are these from Dr. K?
  18. MartiD - I have some of the same curiosities about what it's supposed to be vs what my symptoms actually are.

    For you, you lost on HCG, and not only maintained - but went on to lose on LRX, and you don't have these severe symptoms.

    Are we just lucky because we caught it in early stages prior to symptoms? Don't "symptoms" matter?
  19. MartiD

    MartiD New Member

    Very true, and I suspect that my RT3 is high due to the weight loss. I do realize how lucky I am and how I'm certainly not as bad off as many. I'd be curious to know how to re-train the body to except a lower weight instead of it thinking it is in starvation mode. Maybe less stress? Stop assuming I am sicker than I am? LOL


  20. Yea, this is one I struggle with - there is no way to actually lose weight without having some negative effect right? BUT - too much fat in and of itself causes inflammation - so how do we know what's the net benefit? Losing weight (even with HCG) but decreasing our inflammation in the process. From what I can tell it's top of the heap on things going wrong, so shouldn't that be the priority?

    Let me know when you figure out how to retrain body to accept a lower weight!!!!!

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