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A Few Questions on PPP and fat

Discussion in 'Beginners Area' started by QiGuy1997, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I really need to answer this better but the answer is rather copious and tedious but you deserve it. It has to do with something called the Crabtree effect. When glucose is present in great excess in any life form this effect kicks in....... This is the fully reversible biologic Maxwell demon switch that allows us to go from a combination of glycolysis and oxidative phosphorylation to almost pure glycolysis to make energy. This effect is classically described in yeasts for alcohol production from sugar. People with Candida who love carbs, for example. Please remember from freshman biology that yeasts have a special ability to get rid of their mitochondria if they live in an environment of total sugar. This patterns cancer cells when they exhibit the Warburg effect. Any cancer or yeast cell without mitochondria is 100% dependent on glycolysis for ATP production. This is why most epithelial cancers like breast ovary skin and prostate CA are the types of cancers which respond well to a ketogenic diet.
    They also all are tied to altered circadian signaling ironically. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20804724

    Now youre particular case is interesting......to get Crabtree you got to have a lot of glucose in the cell........when you CT it cant get in. D glucose is excluded from the cell based upon Ling's work. So when BG is outside the cell it can not cause the crabtree effect. I think the crabtree effect is limited by temp and fats and when D glucose gets in a cell this is where a diabetic gets in trouble with early neolithic disease like nephropathy, retinopathy, and neuropathy. When glucose gets in.......it is the only way to make ATP from the electron chain........I told you already it is a poor way to do it because of the 36 to 146 ATP deal with fats.......this implies that less electrons are on the chain.......less electrons means less current......less current means more illness. When you make less ATP, proteins dont unfold and water cant bind and energy falls. Ox phos fall mitochondria fail........This signal in mitochondria goes to the nucleus and make too much H2O2. This signal liberates the key metabolic activity sensors and/or regulators of inflammation such as AMPK and NRF-1 to make inflammatory cytokines.
    Penny likes this.
  2. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Diabetic neuropathy is a disease of a loss of electrons in their dorsal root ganglion. When glucose or fructose if the fuel in the cell there is significant reduction in activity of AMP kinase which is a regulator of PGC1-α, the retina, basement membrane of the kidney and the dorsal root ganglia of sensory neurons. This is why diabetics get these three diseases no matter how good they control their blood sugar.........because it still gets in.......the cell. You are doing something special.......now you know why CT is youre buddy
  3. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The whole ATP thing Bob.........36 to 146........AMP kinase can be viewed as a sensor looking at the ATP status of a cell. The TAN or the ability of protein unfolding maximally, in other words.
  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    And Bob......to make you feel even better about being a polar bear and eating like a shark consider this set of facts for your issues:

    Look up PGC-1a and you'll see the first 3 activators out of all 6 are very interesting to you:
    PGC-1α is thought to be a master integrator of external signals. It is known to be activated by a host of factors, including:
    1) Reactive oxygen species (ROS) and reactive nitrogen species (RNS), both formed endogenously in the cell as by-products of metabolism but upregulated during times of cellular stress.
    2) It is strongly induced by cold exposure, linking this environmental stimulus to adaptive thermogenesis.
    3) It is induced by endurance exercise and recent research has shown that PGC-1α determines lactate metabolism, thus preventing high lactate levels in endurance athletes and making lactate as an energy source more efficient. Brain likes this too......and keeps you from AD.

    Ergo, high intracellular glucose effects may be aggravated or at least not ameliorated by antioxidants, central heating, and inactivity. Sounds like a modern mismatch huh Bob?
  5. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The take home for you......large amounts of H2O2 from mitochondria being feed fat act at several points to inhibit the activation pathway of insulin to keep it low and your BG higher to protect your mitochondria.........and CT does the same exact thing. BOOM.
  6. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

  7. Dali Dula

    Dali Dula Moderator

    My mind is reeling. Would a Cold and fat adapted T2D still benefit from Metformin? Now that many conventional lab values seem less relevant ( BG, cholesterol) what diagnostic metrics should be monitored? Is hsCRP adequate to monitor cellular inflammation status? thanks for this explanation I woke this morning with my mind spinning.
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    ^^^^yes because metformin has mTOR effect, makes you IR, and makes sure you are a fat burner. Read the post I just left in the Doctor information section of the blog.......this blog by calories proper is a masterpiece.
  9. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    Me too "head spinning". But that seems to be happening a lot lately with me just trying to keep up with Jacks's mega postings and understanding it.
    Until then I will just keep applying and discovering my n=1 results.
  10. jib

    jib New Member

    A T2D friend at work who is on Metformin + (SAD diet), and his Doc added injectable insulin because of high BG #'s.

    Is there a better option than adding insulin when a person remains on SAD?
  11. QiGuy1997

    QiGuy1997 New Member

    This was spectacular information! One thing I'm still not understanding though is the idea that fats produce more ATP than carbohydrates. Sure, a molecule of fat produces 4 times as much ATP as a molecule of sugar, but it also has 4 times as many calories. Likewise, a gram of fat produces 2 times as much ATP as a gram of sugar, but it also has 2 timesbas many calories. In terms of calories, eating equal amounts of each would provide the same ampunt of ATP.
  12. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    I have thought as that as well. Would be nice to hear some insights. :)
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    calories only matter in a closed system......life is an open design. Read EE6.......
  14. jib

    jib New Member

    From Energy and Epigentics 4: light,water magnetism

    "Why calories are a useless metric:
    So what electrifies DNA and RNA? Water, in earth’s native magnetosphere is the short answer. Water in rain, is energized by the sun’s photons and electrons. This energy is transferred to the earth by rain and rainwater allows all plants and animals to survive on this planet. This is how trees, flowers, and grass live and grow. They do not need to eat food to make energy, so they have no need for fat stores as mentioned earlier. Animals, however do not live this way. Animals evolved fat cells for this reason alone. Plants and trees are 100 percent connected to the earth in the ground and their canopy is exposed to the sun all the time. They get what they need by how they live. Life is all about energy transfers. This is a missing link for most biologists. Energy transfers in physics are measured in joules, not calories, in open systems. Biology happens to occur in an open systems, not closed systems.

    This is why calories are a useless metric for mankind. They are only useful for the Hawthorne effect which is a psychologic and not biologic effect. This is one of the first mistakes modern science men have made in their misunderstanding of nature laws. If you think calories matter, you too are making the same mistake. Again, these are natures laws folks. So we humans have adaptive methods to complete life’s energy transfers. In the earth’s native magnetic field, water becomes coherent in the native ELF EMF, called the Schumann resonance, and this means it can transfer energy from the sun’s photons and electrons with 100 percent efficiency. When the field is altered from the native state the ability is lost or becomes very inefficient. This leads to illness first then an early death next. Where do these electrons and photons come from? They come from the splitting or water in our body and from our food. Sounds familiar doesn’t it?

    Just to give you perspective how powerful this is, a modern combustible car engine gives you 14 percent–26 percent energy from gasoline. Your mitochondria gives you 39 percent efficiency from glucose or fat to make ATP. Thirty-nine percent fuel efficiency can not account for enough energy to mathematically explain enzymatic fluxes or reaction speeds to overcome the energy of activation we have measured in experiments today. In physics, they say if your theory does not meet your experimental results, then your theory is wrong. Sadly, biochemists do not follow this line of reasoning. Biologists do not understand nature’s laws and physicists do. You would be wise to understand this distinction."

    Also Quantum Biology 9:photosynthesis:
    "Closed systems of energy transfers are measured in calories, Open systems use joules, not calories."
  15. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I'm trying to get people to understand it and I keep sayin' it

    Anyone who mention calories tells me right there they have no understanding of biology......they understand the beliefs of others about biology. biology is all about electrons and protons not calories.
  16. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    The idea of thinking in terms of calories is so ingrained in modern thought that it affects your thinking in ways that you don’t even realize unless you go to great lengths to expunge it. Your question seems to contain an implicit assumption that calories are fattening, even if you don’t explicitly believe this. Here is how I understand it:

    A gram of fat provides twice as much ATP with much less ROS and potential metabolic disruption than a gram of carbs. Or, a mole of fat provides four times as much ATP with much less ROS and potential metabolic disruption than a mole of carbs. This is the really the only relevant fact here.

    Now, it is also a fact that a gram of fat provides generally twice as much heat energy as a gram of carbs when burned in a bomb calorimeter. An interesting fact perhaps, and further confirmation that fat contains a lot of energy, which is nice, but completely irrelevant to human metabolism being that you are not a bomb calorimeter. “Calories” are neither the reason you get fat nor are they the proper measure of usable cellular energy. Your body doesn’t “burn the calories for heat,” it extracts food electrons to drive chemical reactions.

    The bomb calorimeter converts that mole of molecule to heat, which is wasted into entropy.
    Your body converts that mole of molecule into chemical energy, which can make ATP, which is conserved, not wasted.

    You question implicitly assumes that we should use caloric content as the measuring stick to line up and compare the function of different macronutirients. But the caloric content is only a measure of its potential heat energy and so it’s not really surprising that a molecule with more potential heat energy is also capable of making more ATP. Both calories and ATP production are potential energetic products of these macromolecules under different conditions, and energy should always be conserved per the laws of physics.

    In other words, it’s a bit like this: Say fat is Donald Trump and carbs are a truck driver. Then say that if you take $100 of Trump’s money and $100 of truck drivers money, they could both be converted to 73 Euros. True, but so what. Trump is still a lot richer, and so is fat.
  17. prAna303

    prAna303 New Member

    Quote: The man from earth (movie)

    Art: What you're saying, it offends common sense.
    John Oldman: So does Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, that's the way nature works.
  18. QiGuy1997

    QiGuy1997 New Member

    Ok, I think I see what you're saying. Could you not just eat twice as many grams of sugar as you would fat in order to get the same amount of ATP? Or is the ROS production too great in this circumstance, making the ATP not worth it unless it's from fat? Also, I thought ROS are a good thing because they induce mitochondrial biogenesis (via superoxide radicals). Do these beneficial effects of ROS not occur if the ROS stem from complex 1 from sugar oxidation?
  19. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    I think Jack might say that if your field is normal (free of non native EMF) and carbs are in season where you live, then you could. Hence the Kitivans, etc. But that not reality for most of us today. When your field is not normal, the mitochondrial leakiness becomes a big problem.
  20. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    Inflammation is good in small doses in the right places. Helps fight infections and other insults. When chronic and uncontrolled you get diseases of civilization. Same with ROS.

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